You're perfectly free to choose that route, if that's what you enjoy, have fun.
0 Replies
failures art
2
Sun 13 Feb, 2011 09:35 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
failures art wrote:
No. I'm saying it requires no special process to deny god. It's natural.
Let me see if I can frame this in more concrete terms. You see, I actually do have a faith. It consists of the following two tenets:
Tenet #1: It is bad to cause pain and suffering, whereas it's good to cause pleasure and happiness. The goodness and the badness are both proportional to the intensity of the pleasure and suffering being experienced, and to the number of sentient beings experiencing them. (Translation for philosophy buffs: I'm a classical act-utilitarian.)
Tenet #2: Empirical evidence is always a good reason to believe something. But in the absence of it, nothing else is a reason to believe anything. (Translation for philosophy buffs: I am an empiricist.)
Because I believe in both tenets without being able to prove them, this is an honest-to-Russell religion. And as you see, my religion doesn't deny god per se, because it's not about god. It's about moral goodness, moral badness, and believing. My atheism, far from being a central tenet of my faith, is just a mundane side effect of tenet #2: God is merely one of a myriad imaginable things I don't believe in, because there isn't enough evidence to bother. I needed no special process to end up disbelieving in gods.
Is this roughly compatible with what you're saying?
It is very compatible. I think that theists seem to define atheist by what they don't believe. What I have been struggling for is to communicate to them is it is better to talk to people about what they DO believe in. Basically, I challenge the mantra of "Atheism is a belief in nothing." I believe in many things, and god is simply not amongst the things that I believe. I'm not defined by my atheism. Much like the theist will understand that they are defined by what they believe (not what they don't), I am the same.
I haven't taken time to compose any sort of tenants as you've put forth. I very much identify with your second one. My beliefs on the universe is separate from my moral/social identity. So I also identify with your first tenant, but it is not a factor in what I believe in RE: what is real.
Chai found this and posted it a very inappropriate thread - this one is much more propriate
As she explains - the words are taken verbatim from a fundamental religion site:
0 Replies
cicerone imposter
1
Sun 13 Feb, 2011 10:01 pm
@failures art,
What Thomas proclaimed as his two tenets sounds similar to Buddhist teachings.
0 Replies
Ionus
-1
Sun 13 Feb, 2011 10:49 pm
A Christian, a Jew, and an atheist are standing in line to be executed during the French Revolution.
The christian is first, and he lays down on the guillotine. Before the executioner pulls the lever he shouts, "My god will save me!". The lever is pulled, and the blade swooshes down, stopping just short of his neck. The executioner, believing a miracle of god has occurred, figures he can't kill this man, and so sets him free.
The Jew lays down on the guillotine. Like the christian, he shouts, "My god will save me!". The lever is pulled, the blade falls, and once again it stops just short of his neck. The executioner, again, believes god is on this man's side, and lets him go.
Finally, the atheist lays down on the guillotine. He examines the guillotine, finds a rock in the gears, and says to the executioner, "Well here's your problem..."
The moral? There's a time and a place for skepticism.
0 Replies
Ionus
-1
Sun 13 Feb, 2011 10:58 pm
0 Replies
Ionus
-1
Sun 13 Feb, 2011 11:22 pm
0 Replies
mesquite
0
Sun 13 Feb, 2011 11:34 pm
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:
There may be a difference in how things are in the U.S. and how they are here in Canada. Or, maybe just from what I perceive from my personal experience.
Our schools are not under any kind of attack by the religious. In fact, it is the opposite. Religion is not discussed in our schools. Christmas is called anything but in the schools. Bibles are not one of the books that the kids can have in school. The list goes on. I am sure it is different in Catholic schools. I am referring to the public school system.
I don't see people even mentioning atheism. Maybe it is because we have so many different cultures and religions, but I find plenty of tolerance here. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about the U.S. That is an observation, not a criticism.
There may be a difference in how things are in the U.S. and how they are here in Canada. Or, maybe just from what I perceive from my personal experience.
Our schools are not under any kind of attack by the religious. In fact, it is the opposite. Religion is not discussed in our schools. Christmas is called anything but in the schools. Bibles are not one of the books that the kids can have in school. The list goes on. I am sure it is different in Catholic schools. I am referring to the public school system.
I don't see people even mentioning atheism. Maybe it is because we have so many different cultures and religions, but I find plenty of tolerance here. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about the U.S. That is an observation, not a criticism.
It never entered my head that both atheists and Christians don't cheat, steal, lie, gamble and use profanities.
The points at issue are pre-marital intercourse, adultery, divorce, abortion, sodomy, male homosexuality and artificial birth control. I see atheism deriving from seeking to have those activities rendered respectable and doctrines inhibiting them, which the law doesn't, discredited.
I can't see any other reason for promoting atheism.
The points at issue are pre-marital intercourse, adultery, divorce, abortion, sodomy, male homosexuality and artificial birth control.
Yes, yes, yes......but you have to build up gradually. You cant expect people to be born with morals, morality is subject to evolution . Some atheists are only at the pond scum stage.
