Atheism

Just curious. If you never heard of God, why would you choose not to believe in Him? Atheism would not exist otherwise.

What? Sorry can you repeat that again slowly, I honestly cannot make head nor tail of it. I'm either thick or you've misread my post.

I'm still re-reading this - I find it hard to believe that you think atheism can only exist if you've heard of Him (your capitalisation, my bolding). Greeks were atheist without being aware of Him. Atheism isn't making a special case out of christianity or even Abrahamic religions. We discount the existence of all deities.

Extending your logic if atheism is correct it will cease to exist because it can only exist if there is a god. That is a bizarre proposal Trep.

please don't 'quote' theists posting here

thanks

Sorry.

Beth, Some of the theists here have been great contributors to this conversation. I think not quoting theists is to general a request.

Interesting that you brought up the word Adultery, It reminded me of this short video I seen. This video has poor language so beware!

The power of prayer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h8wdvGNlM4&feature=channel

God in the old testament used some pretty heavy means to keep his people chaste, in those days, anyone that was adjudged to be disruptive to the society as identified by the mosaic law were removed from that nation wether through exile or death. Any nation that tried to oppose Gods plan for the israelites were removed, those that allowed them through were spared. The trouble was that the majority had a big issue with the israelites pasing through thier land. It is important to note also that the Israelites were only successful in war when they had been instructed by God, and each time they attacked without that instruction, they lost. God had already judged those nations. There was a great big "Touch my people you will regret it" written across the forehead of the Israelites. He removed any threat inside or outside of that nation. The Israelites had a purpose, and they had to be prosperous and chaste to achieve that purpose.

Slavery was a very different thing in those days, it was often used to pay off debts, and 7 years was the maximum period one would slave for, any longer than that was voluntary. Masters were also to look after thier slaves, and so many people, including foreigners under a strict immigrant policy, would volunteer themselves to slavery as it was a decent living in comparison to todays idea of slavery (most low level jobs today)

I'll agree with you that it makes for some pretty heavy reading, and there is alot more that is tough on the old digestive system too. But wether you think it right or wrong, Christianity is no longer under the mosaic law. The law was only temporary, to keep Gods people chaste until Jesus fulfilled it. WIth a physical law, one could follow it to the T and still be a jackass or non christian, but under the new covenant, which is based on principle, and not law, it means that everyone will be judged according to thier heart conditions.
Christians who stone thier children today, would not be acceptable nor would stoning a homosexual, or an adulterer, or forcing slavery upon an individual as with many things that transpired in those days.

I am not aware that the law of adultery was in any way exclusive to women, could you site source? clearly I have some reading up to do.

I also realise this thread is an atheism zone, and with me being a theist, I am happy to take any discussion you wish to have to another thread if it makes you feel less like I am stepping on your turf

There was not much that I can agree with what you have said. I can agree with this though! your quote: clearly I have some reading up to do.

I do not mean to come across as mean I just think that the bible is read better by yourself without anyone influincing the way you think. I would find out every thing about slavery that you can as there is alot about it in the bible.

One thing that I found interesting is that," if you were a slave and I was your master and I gave you a wife and the two of you had children together the children would be my property. Now if you were able to be freed meaning that you did not come from a different country I could alow you to stay with your family, all you would have to do is go with me to the temple and let everyone know that you would be my slave for life and have your ear pierce to show this new bond with me.

It is true that slavery was a different ball of wax when the bible was written.

Man have created many different gods - most of them before your god. How do you know any god existed? What makes you so sure your god is the only god? Do you have proof of his existence beyond what the bible says?

The bible is a fictional work written by many authors. It has many inaccuracies, inconsistencies, errors, and omissions. If god authored the bible, he did a piss-poor job of it.

In one verse, he says "do not kill." In another he says it's okay to kill your son, brother, sister, father and mother.

In one verse, he says he's a "loving god." In another verse, he destroys all life forms except for what was supposedly saved on Noah's ark. Do you know how big that ark had to be to save all the animals in two's in addition to all the food and water to feed them?

During the supposed bible time, there were many miracles to show he existed; then poof, he disappeared. Don't you find that strange?

How do you keep all this straight in your head?

Says who? Would you mind showing me your theological authority for this claim?


So, am I to understand that the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule are suspended as well? After all, they were all part of what you call "the law". If not, why are some parts of the law suspended and some aren't, and how do you tell which is which?

You and I both know that for either side of the arguement, burden of proof is impossible, we all collate our evidence, and then we place our bets. You could examine the very same evidence that I do, and come to a completely different conclusion, however we all have a day that we live to, you to death, myself to death, and we collect whatever reward is at the end of it. I think this is the point where most christians play the pascal wager theorum, but I am happy with my bet.
My God is not the only god out there, you have alsorts,Satan is a god, Jesus is a god, ishtar, zeus, and rooney for instance is the god of the mancunians, or at least half of them. My God is merely the only one I will choose to live my life to. Every human has a faith in something, even if it is only in themselves. I put mine where I put it, you put yours against it


References help, however everyone was to be judged according to the law. You could not murder, however should a man break the law, the punishment for it was to be carried out wether family members or otherwise. Vengeance for manslaughter was also acceptable, although there were refuge cities for those ones unfortunate enough to cause a death.


actually he saved 7 of the clean animals, only 2 of the unclean I have had better sources, but on short notice this will do http://creation.com/how-did-all-the-animals-fit-on-noahs-ark the ark thery has many sceptics, but I am comfortable with the story


You misunderstand the requirement of miracles, as do many. Miracles had thier purpose, but are no longer needed, the new testiment states that miracles would "dry up." In other words, we have had enough miracles, but it is the teachings that should be leading us. I see enough miracle in life, and the earth, but of course that was all a huge accident (right?)

Is it so proposterous that given the odds of life as it is today occuring by chance, that someone might choose to believe it was deliberated?

Smile wrote:

Am I to believe that the 9 animals was the basis of all the different species alive today? When was the world flood?> A few centuries after god created earth? There's a thing called evolutionary science that refutes that claim outright.

Miracles are no longer needed? By who's choice? Because turning a woman into a pile of salt is not needed today? LOL

By what authority does anyone claim such things? I pray, I study, I meditate, I test my understandings in conversation, and I adjust my thinking where I am shown to be wrong. wash rinse repeat.

[Matthew 5:16-18]
[Romans 6:13-15]
[Galatians 2:20-21]
The scriptures

Let me be clear, The law was not abolished by Jesus, he fulfilled it. The principles laid out in the law still stood, and the commandments were still to be upheld, as it was clear by Jesus command that any man acting or teaching against the commandments were considered least in the heavens, and
as stated by the apostle Paul, we are not under law, but under Grace, and he followed with the statement "Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!"

Jesus replaced the law with two commands, love god, and love your neighbour. These are what you will be tried against, and not the law. The law is still however a decent measuring stick for how God feels about something.

when God abandoned the nation of Israel and opened up his approval to the Gentile nations much arguement infiltrated the early christian congregations regarding your question. How much of the law must be observed?

"Love god" is a command? So, if you fail to love god, you go to hell. Is that a threat or to create fear in the masses? Nothing like a loving god who gave his only begotten son...

7 of each, and 2 of each.

head desk but nice try. it is however agreeable to evolutionary science that far fewer species would be required than you may realise. I will go check some sources, but I believe it was 32 different species were required to enable the variety we see today. It is more likely that far more were on board but it opens up the possibilities

But there's a conflict of the 7,000 years of the earth to evolutionary science. Even homo sapiens are believed to have evolved from monkeys. Do you refute that?

hell is not a biblical teaching, as with many common misunderstandings

If you dont love God he merely owes you nothing at death. But I understand you will be ok with that.