@reasoning logic,
How would we know that rl? We wouldn't be here if the world knew the true Jesus.
@spendius,
If the church spoke the truth then we would have no doubt
A gift for my atheist friends.
None of those silly questions are actually relevant. An atheist could still be misogynistic, or racist, just as a religionist could accept the equality of women and deplore racism. Atheism is about the answer to a single question, whether or not one believes that there is a god. If one answers: "No, i don't believe that," it is not reasonable to infer other beliefs from that. Being atheist is in effect rejecting a creed, rejecting orthodoxy. Being atheist is not an act of subscribing to a set of beliefs. You can't know what an atheist thinks about anything else simply by noting that he or she is an atheist.
@Setanta,
I agree. Atheists and Theists are the same in that regard.
@Setanta,
Quote:You can't know what an atheist thinks about anything else simply by noting that he or she is an atheist.
The "anything else" is so vague as to render the statement fatuous. But there are many things that one can know about what an atheist thinks assuming that s/he is consistent and intellectually rigorous.
@Intrepid,
No, they are not. Atheists are bound by no creed which would tell them or suggest to them prejudices based on such a creed. Theists can be and often are enjoined to think less of others because of their gender, their race or their religious confession. It comes with the package. Conservative Catholics are going to consider all Protestants to be apostate. Many conservative Protestant sects consider women to be inferior, to be destined to serve men in order to serve their god. Such doctrinal injunctions have a powerful influence.
@Setanta,
"Theists can be and often are enjoined to think less of others because of their gender, their race or their religious confession."
An entirely true statement, the sad part, is that whatever they believe, if this is the case with an individual, they are doing it wrong.
"it comes with the package"
More through the fault of the teachers, than the teachings
@Smileyrius,
Smileyrius wrote:More through the fault of the teachers, than the teachings
So, you're saying that when Jehovah tells his boys and girls to slaughter all of the enemy, including the women and children; when he tells them they may have slaves, and how they are to be treated; when he tells them that homosexuals should be put do death; when he tells them that adulterous women (but apparently not adulterous men) should be put to death; when he tells them that unruly children should be put to death--you're saying there's no fault in the teaching there?
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
No, they are not. Atheists are bound by no creed which would tell them or suggest to them prejudices based on such a creed. Theists can be and often are enjoined to think less of others because of their gender, their race or their religious confession. It comes with the package. Conservative Catholics are going to consider all Protestants to be apostate. Many conservative Protestant sects consider women to be inferior, to be destined to serve men in order to serve their god. Such doctrinal injunctions have a powerful influence.
You make an incorrect assumption based on the Old Testament only.
Think less of others comes with the package? Do you profess not to think less of theists because you are an atheist? Think carefully on past statements before you answer.
I think less of fanatics, whether they be theist fanatics, agnostic fanatics or atheist fanatics. It is only by doing the Chinese menu routine--picking some from column A and some from column B--that you are able to allege (falsely) that your religious confession is loving and tolerant. If you profess that which you admire, and reject that which you deplore, than you cannot claim that scripture is inerrant because it is divinely inspired. You can't have it both ways. Don't try that dog and pony show about Jesus changing the playing field, either. He said that not one jot or tittle of the law would change until time itself had passed away.
In the King James version, Matthew, Chapter 5, verse 18:
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
And the law includes the injunction to execute homosexuals, to execute adulterous women (but apparently adulterous men get a pass), to execute unruly children. Maybe you need to read the Pentateuch again. You can close your eyes to this, but you can't change it, and if you deny it, you deny the proposition that scripture is divinely inspired and inerrant.
And once again, i will point out that this is not about the experience of being an atheist, and it is about religionists trashing this thread.
@Setanta,
It isn't a question of trashing the thread. If atheists refuse to erect an ethical system they leave society rudderless and such a society will be at the mercy of commands from human agents who happen to have power. It is that that is eminently trashable.
@Intrepid,
Quote:You make an incorrect assumption based on the Old Testament only.
But we all know sequels never live up to the originals. Sorry, I really couldn't resist. I can't even resist a 21st century God 2.0 reference.
Protestants and catholics are both schisms generated by the new testament (i.e. they are christian sects)
Also Revelations is in the New Testament:
Quote:7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
Rev 7:5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
The rest of you can kiss your asses goodbye.
Many religious commentators say the '144,000' number is symbolic and it means all believers. I hazard that would mean that the unbelievers are somehow lesser. I do struggle with how any bible reading christian justified persecuting jews.
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:
A gift for my atheist friends.
A scarlet letter A for - adultery? No thanks.
@edgarblythe,
That is the scarlet atheist symbol. Nothing to do with adultery.
@Intrepid,
That ain't what N Hawthorne wrote.
@Intrepid,
We've got a symbol? Interesting that a theist would be the first to tell me that...
Still sounds like that theist thingy where they honestly believe atheism is a religious belief, that way they can deal with it. Guys, we don't have meetings. I think this is more appropriate:
Mentioned it before, but I honestly believe that you can arrive at atheism without ever having heard of it (God knows I did
). No religion can claim that.
Garnering symbols. What would be next - rules and regulations? Regular meetings? No, I don't accept any of that, even by way of bipartisanship or good humor.
