Who will win the senatorial election in Massachusetts ?

@Ticomaya,

Ticomaya wrote:

Would finding a loophole and letting him go free constitute "justice" to you?

I don't accept your implicit premise that loopholes would be found for the defendants we're talking about. But if they were found within a context of lawful criminal procedure, then yes. Yes, that would constitute justice for me.

Ticomaya wrote:

What's wrong with military tribunals?

Nothing, if the defendant is a soldier. Khalid Sheik Muhammed however, as well as Mr. Pants-On-Fire, are civilian criminals. Their acts, however despicable, fall into the same category as Timothy McVeigh's. They should be dealt with under the same legal rules.

Ticomaya wrote:

Do you consider the Blackwater employees to be terrorists, Thomas?

These particular ones? Yes.

Ticomaya wrote:

Are American soldiers who kill Iraqis also terrorists?

Only those who shoot into crowds of civilians without being threatened. I would expect that only a small percentage of them fall in that category. But those who do, I consider terrorists, yes.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
Do you consider the Blackwater employees to be terrorists, Thomas?

These particular ones, yes.

Ticomaya wrote:
Are American soldiers who kill Iraqis also terrorists?

Only those who shoot into crowds of civilians without being threatened. I would expect that only a small percentage of them fall in that category. But those who do, I consider terrorists, yes.

I guess a lot depends upon the definition of the word "terrorist." Clearly your definition is not the same as mine.

I guess we could agree to disagree and stop derailing this thread.

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@Ticomaya,

Works for me.

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@Thomas,

Wait ... you edited your post on me ...

Thomas wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
Would finding a loophole and letting him go free constitute "justice" to you?

I don't accept your implicit premise that loopholes would be found for the defendants we're talking about. But if they are found within a context of lawful criminal procedure, then yes. Yes, that would constitute justice for me.

I did not mean to suggest a loophole will be found for these particular defendants, but the possibility exists. But in any case, you have answered by indicating that if a loophole is found, you believe they should go free, and that would constitute "justice" for you.

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@Thomas,

Quote:

Only those who shoot into crowds of civilians without being threatened. I would expect that only a small percentage of them fall in that category. But those who do, I consider terrorists, yes.

What about the shitbirds who bombed out the petrochemical plant at Pancevo dumping hundreds of tons of toxic chemicals into the Danube river? I mean, Russians called that an act of international terrorism; you agree with that or did the necessity of taking a credible rape allegation against a psycho American president off the front pages of newspapers at the time justify the means??

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@gungasnake,

The premise of your question is false. Clinton's impeachment trial ended with his acquittal in February 1999. The Pancevo bombing happened two months later, in April 1999. By that time there were no front page stories left to take Clinton out of.

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@Ticomaya,

Ticomaya wrote:

I did not mean to suggest a loophole will be found for these particular defendants, but the possibility exists. But in any case, you have answered by indicating that if a loophole is found, you believe they should go free, and that would constitute "justice" for you.

Yes. If a loophole is found (I don't see why it would in the two cases we're talking about) and if the court thinks the loophole is big enough to let the alleged terrorist go free (again, I don't see why it would), then I would consider it just to let the alleged terrorist go.

And if pigs fly (I don't see why they would, either), I consider it smart to vote for Sarah Palin.

My point is, both statements are about equally unsurprising -- or should be.

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@Joe Nation,

Joe (plugging ears; shouting nyah, nyah, nyah) Nation wrote:

The Democrats, in case no one has noticed, still hold an 18 seat majority in the Senate. That's a larger majority than the Republicans EVER had under George W. Bush, yet they seemed to pass pretty much whatever they damned well pleased including the worst Prescription Drug Law ever conceived. (Don't ask me, ask Senator Coburn of Oklahoma)

We will get this Health Care Bill passed because starting tomorrow we are asking all of the Democratic Senators to allow their balls to descend and start really fighting for what they know is right.

Dem Senators are already abandoning ship...including Webb, Bayh, Lieberman, even Barney Frank...this bill is as good as dead.

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I said this in another thread but will repeat it here. The senate campaign in MA was not won by the Repubs, but was won by Independents who don't like what they see happening in Washington, especially after they thought they had fixed it last year with this president. As a result, all incumbents are in the cross hairs now.

Thus it becomes very obvious what will be a successful campaign strategy for non-incumbents in Nov. Appeal to independents with the message of change that Obama promised but didn't deliver...and it won't matter if a D or an R follows your name...you'll win.

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@georgeob1,

No. I meant Takoma Park, Md, which is part of Montgomery County. Have you been lately? I think they're an accurate snapshot of well-off working Liberals. It's definitely not as wealthy as Blandthesda, or Potomac and its inhabitants are scruffier on the surface, but their wallets do the talking.

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@littlek,

No, but I was born in Rhode Island. I went to school in Mass. I follow the politics because of everything the place stands for, which includes the Kennedys (who are also a part of RI) to its major universities, the current governor, etc. I no longer live in New England, but having moved away and lived in other places (Indiana) I find Mass to be familiar and somewhat comforting territory.

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@okie,

Quote:

Fun to watch the liberals panic here, it must be more fun in Massachusetts.

It could be even more fun later this year when the election rolls around.

I don't agree with you about the fun part, but the Democrats are completely responsible for the loss.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

And if pigs fly (I don't see why they would, either), I consider it smart to vote for Sarah Palin.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6813/flyingpigdb6.jpg

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Quote:

Dem Senators are already abandoning ship...including Webb, Bayh, Lieberman, even Barney Frank...this bill is as good as dead.

Okay. Order the flowers if you like, we'll see.

Joe(When did Barney become a Senator? Mr. Green

)Nation

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Quote:

You've got to be kidding ! THAT would surely set the stage for a real electoral disaster for Democrats in November and a one term presidency for Obama.

What did Reagan do when he lost seats in the Congress? And... how did that work out for him.

Interesting observation. However, though the current crowd is every bit as convinced of the rightness of their beliefs as was Reagan and the Democrats are just as proficient in public campaigns as were Republicans; the beliefs themselves, the people in office, and their resonance with the public generally are all profoundly different in this case. I believe it won't get off the ground, and the attempt, if it is tried, will make the situation of the Democrats & the current Administration worse.

Americans want freedom more than they want "rational" government solutions.

The public didcussions of this event and its aftermath during the next few weeks will be very interesting.

We are at polar opposies again. Unfolding events will show us who is correct.

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@Irishk,

I did too. He did this photo shoot when he was in college to help pay tuition. I guess that was all the negative items they could drag up on him. The one thing I can say in regard to this was when they brought it up to him - he fully admitted it and didn't seem to bother him at all.

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Mornin.

After sleeping on it, I guess I feel ok. The Republicans certainly should feel happy, it's a great win for them and Brown ran a model campaign, one that others should emulate.

I never thought I would see so much joy, however, at having 41 Senators...

Don't know what's going to happen to health care at this point, a lot of it depends on what the WH is doing - which at the moment is disappointingly nothing.

Cycloptichorn

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@Ticomaya,

Nice try, Tico! Laughing

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@georgeob1,

Where is your evidence that Reagan "resonated with the public" any more than Obama does?

I think that conservatives grossly overestimate the amount that the public supports conservative ideas (perhaps the same thing can be said about liberals, although polls... uh well, let's not argue about this right now.).

Political battles are fought in the middle-- and what wins is, more often then not, not the idealogical dogma; but issues of leadership and integrity. It is extremely clear that Americans want leaders who can present solutions, address issues common Americans care about and clearly explain their positions.

The Democrats said they were going to reform Health Care. Americans voted them into power understanding that they were going to reform Health Care. And, they have spent the past 9 months working to reform Health Care.

One party kowtowing to the other party isn't a way to win elections. (And, I suspect the conservatives and Republicans who are offering their "helpful" advice to the Democratic party understand this full well.)

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@Cycloptichorn,

Well, I'm glad you feel OK and pleased to see acceptance instead of anger and recriminations. What will follow, neither of us knows for sure. However, I appears clear that at least to some degree this election, together with those earlier in Virginia and New Jersey, is an indicator of some degree of likely widespread discontent with some elements of the current Administration's policies, political aspirations, or methods.

Whether it will grow in force and action, is something that remains to be seen. However self-styled "progressives" would be wise to be concerned. Just believing strongly in some set of policies or proposals for new ones does not make them either wise or acceptable to others. The strong conviction that one is certainly right and therefore knows better what is really good for us all on some matter of public policy is a perfect setup for hubris and defeat. It also induces other folks who don't agree to think that you may be a little dangerous.

1 Reply

Who will win the senatorial election in Massachusetts ?

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