6
   

DAVID GOLDMAN & SON: WHATAYATHINK ?

 
 
Reply Fri 18 Dec, 2009 11:54 pm
David Goldman is American father of now 9 year old son named Sean.
Mrs. Goldman took Sean to Brazil as a baby,
divorced David and died after marrying someone else,
who is keeping Sean.

David Goldman wants his son back.
For some reason, his stepfather wants to keep him there
and alleges that Sean demands to remain in Brazil.

Brazilian courts have been maintaining the status quo.

What is the right thing to do ?
At first, my thawts were that the Brazilian interloper
is nuts n has no standing to do anything with Sean
and David Goldman 's wishes shoud be granted, . . . but, on reflection,
and re-consideration, inasmuch as Sean is able to speak for himself,
Sean shoud live wherever he wants.

He is not his dad 's property. He is not a slave because of age.
The judicial decision shoud be fully libertarian.
(I have no idea what the law of Brazil is.)
I 've heard that the Brazilian interloper is a wealthy lawyer.
It coud be possible that maybe Sean will get a better life
in more comfortable surroundings there than here.
I 'm not sure how financially well off David Goldman is, relative to Sean 's Brazilian host.

ANYWAY, the decision of who 's guest he will be rightfully belongs to Sean himself.

My thinking in this is consistent with the infamous case of Elian Gonzalez,
who was sent to live forever in communist slavery, because of his age. In that case,
I also advocated that Elian live wherever he chose, until he decided to migrate.

Children r no one 's property.
Thay have no duty to hang around with their parents if thay don t wanna.



WHATAYATHINK and Y ?





David
 
sullyfish6
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2009 08:22 am
Absolutely, this should not be about the adults.

What is best for the child? He has been with this step father since an infant. Yet, his father has first legal rights of custody. It is difficult to see this hashed out on the media.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2009 04:40 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
First, we have to look at some of the actual facts. Sean was not a baby when his mother took him to Brazil. He was 4 years old. That is quite a difference in age.

David Goldman dropped off his wife and 4-year-old son at Newark International Airport in 2004 for a two-week vacation to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

Shortly after Bruna Bianchi Goldman arrived in her homeland she called to say she wanted a divorce, which she obtained in Brazil, and would stay there with their son, Sean.

Your other facts seem to be correct in that she remarried and died. The cause of death was during childbirth of a child with her new husband.

I have not seen anything, so far, regarding the boy wanting to stay in Brazil.

This is a tough one and certainly the boy's wishes should be taken into account. Even though New Jersey courts have indicated that he should be returned to his father.

I am not aware if the 2nd husband adopted the boy.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2009 04:48 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I think that if you don't like current US law regarding parental rights, you should advocate for the changes you would prefer. I don't think you would have much success advocating for changing the laws of Brazil.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2009 06:03 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

I think that if you don't like current US law regarding parental rights,
you should advocate for the changes you would prefer.
I don't think you would have much success advocating for changing the laws of Brazil.
This thread only concerns the morality of the situation.
Its not a debate about the state of the law.

I argue that at age 9,
he can decide for himself where he wants to live.
His wishes shoud be respected.
His dad does not own him; THAT is my point.

Its not as if people were arguing over possession of an escaped dog.





David
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Dec, 2009 09:55 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

dyslexia wrote:

I think that if you don't like current US law regarding parental rights,
you should advocate for the changes you would prefer.
I don't think you would have much success advocating for changing the laws of Brazil.
This thread only concerns the morality of the situation.
Its not a debate about the state of the law.

I argue that at age 9,
he can decide for himself where he wants to live.
His wishes shoud be respected.
His dad does not own him; THAT is my point.

Its not as if people were arguing over possession of an escaped dog.





David
well, interesting but personally I've never thought of connecting morality with law but you go your way and I'll go mine.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 01:22 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

dyslexia wrote:

I think that if you don't like current US law regarding parental rights,
you should advocate for the changes you would prefer.
I don't think you would have much success advocating for changing the laws of Brazil.
This thread only concerns the morality of the situation.
Its not a debate about the state of the law.

I argue that at age 9,
he can decide for himself where he wants to live.
His wishes shoud be respected.
His dad does not own him; THAT is my point.

Its not as if people were arguing over possession of an escaped dog.





David
well, interesting but personally I've never thought of connecting morality with law
but you go your way and I'll go mine.
Well, we can still talk about it, if we wanna.

For MY part, I can 't even begin to guess
what the law is in Brazil.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 01:29 am
In a broader sense, my argument is that children r always screwed
out of their natural rights by adults,
who justify that by insulting the victims' intelligences. To that: I object.

If it were up to me:
thay 'd have the same right to vote as any other citizen,
if thay can read.



David
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 01:48 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Some four and five year olds read. Some 50 year olds cannot. Does that mean you advocate voting for the 4 and 5 year old but not the 50 year old? Just going by what you wrote.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 01:57 am
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

Some four and five year olds read. Some 50 year olds cannot.
Does that mean you advocate voting for the 4 and 5 year old but not the 50 year old? Just going by what you wrote.
I advocate a requirement of literacy for voting.
Without that, he ' s probably just shooting in the dark.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 02:36 am
@OmSigDAVID,
David wrote:
Quote:
I advocate a requirement of literacy for voting.
Without that, he ' s probably just shooting in the dark
emphasis mine

That brings up another question, albeit somewhat off topic.

Do you require literacy for gun ownership too?
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 03:03 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I think it's heartbreaking, but I if I were Mr. Goldman and my son had lived with this other guy as his dad since he was four years old and had gone to school there and had all his friends there, and possibly a little sister or brother (did the child surive the birth that resulted in the death of the mother?), I think I'd have to try to face the facts and realize that my son was comfortable and settled and attached and especially after losing his mother, it would be very, very difficult for him to also lose everything else that was familiar to him in his life, and in fact could cause him permanent emotional damage.
The boy might also always look on him with resentment and anger for taking him out of what he knows and loves and what is comforting to him at a very difficult time.

Heartbreaking though.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 09:07 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

I think it's heartbreaking, but I if I were Mr. Goldman and my son had lived with this other guy as his dad since he was four years old and had gone to school there and had all his friends there, and possibly a little sister or brother (did the child surive the birth that resulted in the death of the mother?), I think I'd have to try to face the facts and realize that my son was comfortable and settled and attached and especially after losing his mother, it would be very, very difficult for him to also lose everything else that was familiar to him in his life, and in fact could cause him permanent emotional damage.
The boy might also always look on him with resentment and anger for taking him out of what he knows and loves and what is comforting to him at a very difficult time.

Heartbreaking though.
SO STIPULATED.
Your points r superbly well taken.





David
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  3  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 09:40 am
I agree that at 9 the kid should have a say in where he lives, I would hope that he has his own advocate, sort of like CASA or something.

A few things I'd like to know -- What has the bio dad's relationship been with him over the last 5 years? Did he challenge custody? Has he visited his son? Why did the mother run away? What is his relationship like with the step dad?
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 11:25 am
@boomerang,
Apparently, he did challenge custody. Strangely, he did not visit the boy until after the mother died.

Hope somebody has answers to the other questions.
0 Replies
 
sullyfish6
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 03:35 pm
The father gave me the creeps when he was on a news feature some time ago. Type A , too good looking, agitated personality, impatient are some words that come to mind.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 03:53 pm
for a nation like the USA based on Law, this thread seems quite amazing, our legal system is strongly seated in ideas which incorporate, children as "owned" by biological parents rather than as holders of their own civil rights. This "ownership" is found consistently throughout our family law statutes. David Goldman as biological father is the "owner" and sole "ower" of his 9 yr old son unless by statute reason can be offered which disables his "ownership". There appears to be no legal reason in this case to overturn this basis of law. The situation with Evian Gonzales (sp) upholds this very same basis on law.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 03:54 pm
@sullyfish6,
sullyfish6 wrote:
The father gave me the creeps when he was on a news feature some time ago. Type A, too good looking,
agitated personality, impatient are some words that come to mind.
Truly, all my life, I wished that I were too good looking,
or even halfway decent.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 04:03 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

for a nation like the USA based on Law, this thread seems quite amazing, our legal system is strongly seated in ideas which incorporate, children as "owned" by biological parents rather than as holders of their own civil rights. This "ownership" is found consistently throughout our family law statutes. David Goldman as biological father is the "owner" and sole "ower" of his 9 yr old son unless by statute reason can be offered which disables his "ownership". There appears to be no legal reason in this case to overturn this basis of law. The situation with Evian Gonzales (sp) upholds this very same basis on law.
Yes; that 's absolutely right, Dys.
In my opinion, that statutory philosophy
is inconsistent with the 13th Amendment. Human beings cannot be property.
(If thay coud be, then thay coud be sold or rented.)


Incidentally, your post shows that u can write beautifully when u feel like it.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Dec, 2009 04:15 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
I agree that at 9 the kid should have a say in where he lives,
I would hope that he has his own advocate, sort of like CASA or something.
I have not heard that he has his own lawyer.
I think that chances are that he probably does not.

boomerang wrote:
A few things I'd like to know -- What has the bio dad's relationship been with him over the last 5 years?
I think its only a few visits, during which he did not reveal
the legal problems involved when his son asked where he 'd been; so he said on TV.




boomerang wrote:
Did he challenge custody?
I dunno.




boomerang wrote:
Has he visited his son?
Only very briefly, a few times




boomerang wrote:
Why did the mother run away?
What is his relationship like with the step dad?
I don 't believe that this information has been revealed.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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