82
   

Proof of nonexistence of free will

 
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2018 10:18 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
... self-awareness and decision making does not necessarily require free will...
Does the ability to choose freely to sacrifice for anothers welfare over your own or the ability to recognize morality require free will?
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2018 10:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
When did the first information appear.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2018 10:53 am
@brianjakub,
Quote:
Does the ability to choose freely...
You answered your own question.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2018 10:57 am
@brianjakub,
I doubt it.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2018 12:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You answered your own question.
and the answer is. . .
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2018 12:42 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I doubt it
why
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Jun, 2018 03:28 pm
@brianjakub,
I guess that, like 0 is a number, even the absence of information is in itself an information.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2018 06:44 am
@Olivier5,
It's a paradox!
if there is nothing nor no one to be informed of an absence the paradox resolves itself.
Full absence takes the "zero" away to...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jun, 2018 02:30 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
You're now going into Philosophy 101. Wink
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 07:44 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fortunately for us, there IS something, so nothingness is nothing to worry about...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 01:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
...half right half wrong CI... Wink
The remark is obvious but the point is not. I merely jumped into another topic that flies around in the Philosophy forums...to the question of why there is something rather than nothingness the obvious answer eludes "everybody"...Nothingness can't be absolute!
"Zero" like the silence between the notes of a music score that marks the rhythm can only exist in the context of something else. Zero is a draw between equal opposite forces, not an absolute absence.
For instance, the net result of energy in the Universe is zero but that does not entail there is no energy nor stuff everywhere.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 01:58 pm
@Olivier5,
As you pointed out there is no such thing as a full absence of information.
Like a shadow, being absent is still BEING there!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 02:06 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
How can Philosophy 101 be half right and half wrong?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 02:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
When the distinction between the remark and the point is not self-evident!
By the way do you know what the point was about paradoxes?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 02:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
By the way, I was referring to you not to Philosophy 101 being half right half wrong...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 02:45 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Self-awareness and decision making are enough for agency, though...

Personally, I think of "agents" as operators...a smart calculator is still a calculator! Wink
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 05:10 pm
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2018 12:36 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
Personally, I think of "agents" as operators...a smart calculator is still a calculator! Wink

Calculators and computers are not yet self-conscious but when they become so, you will have a point.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2018 12:22 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I suppose another way to say this is: if there is matter, there is information, because it's impossible to conceive of matter without a form. Matter always assume some "shape" which in itself is information.

If I were a French philosopher instead of a Uyghur shepherd I would risk a pun: matter is always "in formation".
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jul, 2018 11:57 am
@Olivier5,
Matter is everything our senses can conceive.
 

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