82
   

Proof of nonexistence of free will

 
 
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 May, 2021 05:55 pm
@Leadfoot,
...fair enough. But why would an intelligent designer be gratuitously intelligent without cause if we go with the same line of reasoning you want for reality?
Either you have "turtles all the way down" or you are just requiring to stop the nature of intelligence itself in the Universe at an anthropomorphic simpleton perspective!
Personally I am humble enough to be aware that a monkey like me could never imagine anything like a "God" which wasn't a far fetched cry out as good as a snail imagining a Snail God king of the green pastures and plentiful water.
Why does God need to be apart from Reality or for that matter anything else then the Unity of Reality as a whole? Why go the extra step at all? And if you decide to go why not go for an infinite regression of boxes inside boxes which would invalidate the idea of any level of "Godness" having any power when compared towards infinity? I see no compelling argument for such a narrative.
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 May, 2021 06:06 pm
@Albuquerque,
PS - A wholistic brut fact about Reality is not a mind because a mind is a problem solver and for minds to have utility at all you need a World with "problems" first! Why do you think certain animals dump their "brain"/central nervous system when they find a good enough place to ground themselves in the sea water bed rock and be fed by the currents? You see a brain requires a lot of nutrients and when you don't need one to survive you dump it...
Now, lets see, what would your God be troubleshooting that wasn't an act of his creation which would invalidate the premiss that he is the ultimate source of what is Real?
Neither you nor the best Theologian in existence could counter this bullet proof debunking of vague concepts about Unity in the world translated for a folkloristic anthropomorphisation on the alpha male king of pizza and pie...
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 May, 2021 06:25 pm
@Albuquerque,
What annoys me the most is that you could have chosen to a make a very compelling argument for a super intelligence well above human level in the "food chain" with simple statistics which for all practical purposes would dazzle the entirety of humanity beyond their wildest dreams of what a "God" could be or do in our petty imagination about big things...
Again the problem is that no matter how above our level you decide to go minds do need worlds to troubleshoot and interact with that they do not fully control and thus that cannot proceed from them as creations.
This is to mean that the conceptualization of Ultimate domains puts minds behind Worlds by definition!
A vague amateur grasp of Set Theory clarifies why it CANNOT BE the case!
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2021 07:02 am
@Albuquerque,
Quote:
PS - A wholistic brut fact about Reality is not a mind because a mind is a problem solver and for minds to have utility at all you need a World with "problems" first! Why do you think certain animals dump their "brain"/central nervous system when they find a good enough place to ground themselves in the sea water bed rock and be fed by the currents? You see a brain requires a lot of nutrients and when you don't need one to survive you dump it...
Now, lets see, what would your God be troubleshooting that wasn't an act of his creation which would invalidate the premiss that he is the ultimate source of what is Real?


Do you ever get lonely? Maybe He did too.
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2021 01:59 am
@Leadfoot,
How can something supposedly complete "feel" lonely?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2021 06:11 am
@Albuquerque,
You are confusing 'God' with 'religious dogma'. I have no interest in dogma.
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2021 10:44 am
@Leadfoot,
...ooooh mkay...so a "demi-god" is your target even if you only believe in one.
I have no quarrel with the idea that it is statistically unlikely we are at the top IQ food chain in Reality be it in this Universe or in any other possible domain.
I still find it odd that you believe in just one....that is unlikely to. I have no trouble with the naming either... you can call a "demi-god" Jesus or whatever you like it still is a "demi-god".

Just to make things clear I still have a pet peeve with the idea that any kind of mind is the ultimate source of Reality as a whole because the description of what a mind is and does does not fit well with the idea that it precedes a World.
Minds do navigate a bigger box we call World and try to troubleshoot that navigation. A world that proceeds from a mind has no challenge, no mystery and no need of troubleshooting of any sort...such world is inside you and a priori in you and you are oblivious to its essence...I hope you do realize we are talking what concepts fit in boxes that fit inside bigger or smaller boxes here.
Minds and Worlds are not that hard chicken and egg talk...
Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2021 11:01 am
@Leadfoot,
PS - On a side note here I am currently enjoying flying the Carenado Piper 34 Turbo SENECA V in MSFS. I would love to fly with you one of these days...while Carenado is well know for making beautiful 3D modelling of planes it usually its not famous for making 100% accurate simulations...any way in the case of the lastest Carenado job, the Piper 34-T they have step up their game with a weather radar and overall the plane is full of nice gimmicks like an animated table and open and close windows options among other stuff. Flight model wise stalls are well simulated and while the plane is not hard to learn it is decent and can fly in all sorts of weather conditions. Recently I have made a North cross Atlantic route from Europe to Canada 4 stops in it that took me 11 straight hours and very very bad weather with strong winds and minus 35º centigrade outside air temperatures...it was a enduring blast to fight the elements and manage the batteries with all de icing mechanism working at full throttle...first 4 hours I endure the storm and went above it in Greenland where the clouds were below 25 thousand feet...the remaining part of the journey went fine till I had to go down for final landing in a really really bad weather with almost null visibility in ICAO CYYR in Canada.

Anyway that is all I got for now... I would be glad to hear about your own adventures on the Sim!

0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2021 05:26 am
@Albuquerque,
Quote:
I still find it odd that you believe in just one....that is unlikely to. I have no trouble with the naming either... you can call a "demi-god" Jesus or whatever you like it still is a "demi-god".
I just find it odd/interesting/sad that you (or anyone) would consider God inferior if God felt something for us.

Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2021 08:05 am
@Leadfoot,
Not inferior. Not having the need implies intimate knowledge. Having the need for something that you supposedly already know does not give you any comfort. If you don't know it then you are not the domain master.
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2021 11:29 am
@Albuquerque,
Just to make clear my second point on the last post was an intended implicit contradiction in terms. Obviously you cannot have a need for something that you don't need when you already know how it will play out. This is why it will fail to provide you any comfort which also entails that a God that "needs comfort" is already lacking something out of his domain or "alien" to him.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2021 05:09 pm
@Albuquerque,
Quote:
... a God that "needs comfort" is already lacking something out of his domain or "alien" to him.
Maybe unknowingly, but you again do a wonderful job of describing how/why I came to love God. For HIM to be that humble and show his need for 'something other' to this comparatively insignificant man, I mean THAT was a God I could love, and always will.

But you think that makes him 'weak', I guess? Or me pitiful maybe?
Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2021 07:38 am
@Leadfoot,
I am glad you are happy!
0 Replies
 
Gregory A
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Jun, 2022 04:42 am
@litewave,
But what if those reasons are the result of logic rather than other influences? Logic is not some sort of tangible thing (and it sure isn't resolving this challenge you have set here).
0 Replies
 
PoliteMight
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 22 Oct, 2022 03:00 pm
@litewave,
You have parents out there who actually knows how guys are suppose to function in the world.

Then you have parents that sabotage and put stupid ideas into your skull.

It is like dress codes, and how people reacts to these codes. lingo, innuendo.

.......

It becomes your fault when you are

"given permission" to do things.

When you spend your income living in a hole in the wall just to have privacy that is not your fault. That is because somebody from home is thinking selfish stupidity, may it be guardian 1 or guardian 2.

...

The question is do you have control or are you going to speed on every highway before somebody pulls you over or you get a court-summons in the mail demanding to turn over your plates after the camera caught you all of those times.

I knew a guy in college. He drives. He tried to out run a police officer, he admits to love speeding. He had a courts summons, and did not come back to class.

Was it destiny for him to attempt to out run the officer or was it faith that he would be caught and have to face the results of thinking everybody was his friend in the world.

You would love the guy, nice head of hair, big smile. Was not in the class for the rest of the term.
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2022 01:17 am
@litewave,
In answer to the original post statement.

I would suggest that this statement comes from someone who believes that they don’t actually exist.How can you make such a statement if you don’t exist? You can make no statements whatsoever if you don’t exist.You need to exist to be able to make any statements.

I would suggest that it is not possible to introduce control of CONSCIOUSNESS if you are in an unaware state.

I would suggest that it is possible to introduce control of CONSCIOUSNESS if you are in an aware state.

I would suggest that if you have control of consciousness then you do have control of the thought types (inward/outward) which exist in consciousness.
0 Replies
 
Agent Smith
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 14 Nov, 2022 02:35 am
@litewave,
On target mon ami, on target! Kudos, it comes as a revelation to me.

0 Replies
 
 

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