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Proof of nonexistence of free will

 
 
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 03:43 am
It is really sad how people miss the fundamental originality of quantum physics, which includes the duality between subjectivity and objectivity within its very equations. A wave function representing probability, hence possibility, and which describes physical reality more accurately then any theory ever before, what a feat! Making physical reality statistical, what a feat! Making probability a first-class citizen in describing reality, what a feat! We are faced again with a fundamental duality between abstract and concrete, ideal and material, subjective and objective. Quantum physics forces us to go back to philosophy, which was reputed as already dead, and now has the task of making physics equations make sense!
0 Replies
 
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 04:10 am
What quantum physics is telling us is that neither objectivity (actualities) nor subjectivity (possibilities) are fundamental. It is telling us to search for unity elsewhere, in an even deeper level, rather than trying to reduce possibilities to actualities or vice-versa (of which we should be exceedingly tired by now).
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 05:23 am
@guigus,
1 - Here´s why I often come back you dumb confused ass...

External=The form of the word=Spelling
Internal=The concept within the word=Meaning

2 - Deeper level beyond possibility and actuality ???
...You lost it completely !!! ROTFL Laughing
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 03:56 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

1 - Here´s why I often come back you dumb confused ass...

External=The form of the word=Spelling
Internal=The concept within the word=Meaning

2 - Deeper level beyond possibility and actuality ???
...You lost it completely !!! ROTFL Laughing


Insults, insults, insults... And again, no argument. You must have a direct line to God, since all you say must be accepted without any reasoning! And of course, we must read what we ourselves wrote as if it were something we should learn, as also swallow some insults as well... Nice! Anyway, let me refresh your memory, since you "lost it completely":

Fil Albuquerque wrote:
Its almost ironic given your comments above upon consciousness that while I miss what is external in the word you miss the most important in it, its internal substance...


Doesn't this mix external and internal to you? It does to me, since "internal" is not a substance and "external" is not consciousness. And about going beyond possibility and actuality, that's what all this is about, and it is the only way of unifying them. But of course, you lost it completely: there is no way of going beyond this duality by discarding one side of it in favor of the other.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 04:40 am
@guigus,
You know what guigus...this is not about winning a God damn competition...this is about having some respect for coherence, at least trying...something that judging by the way you write your "stuff" up, your generation, is completely to be lost...neither subjective nor objective meaning to be found in your wining, just nonsense...imagine that, beating possibility !!! oh heavens cry...
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2011 09:59 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

You know what guigus...this is not about winning a God damn competition...this is about having some respect for coherence, at least trying...something that judging by the way you write your "stuff" up, your generation, is completely to be lost...neither subjective nor objective meaning to be found in your wining, just nonsense...imagine that, beating possibility !!! oh heavens cry...


It is you that are trying to "beat" possibility with actuality, not me: what I do is to provide a conceptual framework that preserves possibility and actuality by going beyond both -- rather than denying any of them -- despite blowing your mind in the process. I advice you to catch the pieces of your brain and follow me. And for your information, heavens are already crying, in Australia and in Brazil:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3350976/Australia-and-Brazil-death-tolls-rise-in-flooding-horror.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News
0 Replies
 
JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2011 08:17 am
@Dasein,
The 'they' seem to be 'built up' by 'not knowing' but being really good at pretending to by building up 'facts' and having pussy reasons for abiding by those 'facts' and expecting 'You' to go along or be forced to hear something 'You' aren't supposed to like, fear(popular one) - getting called 'weird, strange, abnormal, delusional, etc. It's interesting how many people can 'ignore' their own essential nature just for the sake of 'showing' what they THINK someone else wants to hear. Why are we so afraid of being who we really are? It's just what IS for Christ's sake!!! To be honest, most times I wish I was deaf, I'm getting sick of hearing all this bullshit.
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 04:47 am
@JPLosman0711,
JPLosman0711 wrote:

The 'they' seem to be 'built up' by 'not knowing' but being really good at pretending to by building up 'facts' and having pussy reasons for abiding by those 'facts' and expecting 'You' to go along or be forced to hear something 'You' aren't supposed to like, fear(popular one) - getting called 'weird, strange, abnormal, delusional, etc. It's interesting how many people can 'ignore' their own essential nature just for the sake of 'showing' what they THINK someone else wants to hear. Why are we so afraid of being who we really are? It's just what IS for Christ's sake!!! To be honest, most times I wish I was deaf, I'm getting sick of hearing all this bullshit.


Don't bother, this is just how things are.
0 Replies
 
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 09:13 am
@JPLosman0711,
You're getting sick and tired of it because you're sick and tired of being who you are, entangled in it with no way out. Now you're ready to read Martin Heidegger's Being and Time.

Your post is the description of a frustrated Be-ing standing on a hill complaining about the way it is. You can't do anything about the way it is. You can only dis-entangle your 'self' from it. Read your post again and step back far enough to isolate your 'self' from the emotional 'hooks' and notice that it is a perfect description of who you are Be-ing right now!!

You can't do anything about the turd. You won't change the turd by complaining or informing others about it (they can't or won't hear you anyway). The only freedom you will get from the turd is when you stop playing patty-cake with it.
guigus
 
  2  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2011 01:54 pm
@Dasein,
Dasein wrote:

You're getting sick and tired of it because you're sick and tired of being who you are, entangled in it with no way out. Now you're ready to read Martin Heidegger's Being and Time.


Are you getting royalties from Heidegger's ghost?

Dasein wrote:
Your post is the description of a frustrated Be-ing standing on a hill complaining about the way it is. You can't do anything about the way it is. You can only dis-entangle your 'self' from it.


It's amazing how the same guy that says people they can do nothing also tells them they can do anything -- and without leaving their homes. Of course, neither is true, which makes that guy a lier.

Dasein wrote:
Read your post again and step back far enough to isolate your 'self' from the emotional 'hooks' and notice that it is a perfect description of who you are Be-ing right now!!


Don't forget to look back while stepping back, to avoid inadvertently falling down.

Dasein wrote:
You can't do anything about the turd. You won't change the turd by complaining or informing others about it (they can't or won't hear you anyway). The only freedom you will get from the turd is when you stop playing patty-cake with it.


That's right: you cannot do anything about the turd, so stop trying to. You'd better communicate with it and participate with it in the making of the world you live in. Even if you decide to stay home reading Heidegger and trying to "disentangle" yourself from the world, in the end of the day you will find out you just lost your precious time on this Earth, which is not an eternal being (like Woody Allen says, "enjoy yourself, it's later than you think").
0 Replies
 
troncomobil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 01:27 am
Again looking out of the box we are in His likeness. Inside we are just a spark that He also created. The Utopia He promises us will NOT be in human form.
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 03:53 am
@troncomobil,
troncomobil wrote:

Again looking out of the box we are in His likeness. Inside we are just a spark that He also created. The Utopia He promises us will NOT be in human form.


Who is he?
0 Replies
 
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:13 am
@troncomobil,
There is no 'box'! Do you 'know' what you're talking about or are you just chanting and hoping it will come true?

If you 'know' what you're talking about, are you getting credit for doing missionary work by posting on this forum?

You need to find a "Religiosity Forum".
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2011 11:22 am
@troncomobil,
In the likeness of who? There is no utopia after we die; dead is dead.
JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 09:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
'Life' as you would call it, actually has no end.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 09:26 pm
@JPLosman0711,
yes...yes...Borg Collective, and stuff...you are me and I am you...we all continue, as we can´t all die at the same time, and we are not really disagreeing...actually I am you talking with yourself only with the purpose of filling up the day...
Us, we, "you" Be-ing...Existence, existent !
Yeahhhhh, that sounds cool...nice stuff you´re smoking there !
JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 09:35 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Have you ever 'felt' anyway besides the way you 'feel' now? Can you even recall a time when 'life' wasn't there? Can you even recall a time when 'you' weren't there? Haven't 'you' always been there? Do you remember when 'you' began? Did you have a 'beginning'? If you can't recall a 'beginning', what makes you think there's an 'end'....?

Take time to notice 'where' all of this is happening, isn't it 'you'? Who else could it be? Can you recall a time when you weren't you?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 11:22 pm
@JPLosman0711,
I think I mention this before...one can speak on many I´s inside oneself as one can speak on one unit upon all the others...so what ? where does that changes anything ? Where is the "YOU" which is not many, or were are the many which cannot relate ?

...An object, any object, as we are also objects/functions, not subjects...is to my view in fact in relation with the entire reality, either by the algorithmic immediate functions it can stablish locally with other variables, or by the indirect relation with ancestral conditions, who made it possible to be as it is now, coming from the far past, thus non-locally, and from which, it, the very object, is a necessary recursive function, and that, once more, relate what it, the object, is presently, in its nature and identity, with all the system of variables that happened before and that are no longer directly visible for what they were, but through what it, again, the object currently is given they were what made it possible in the first place, and that will relate it also in conjunction with all the other vectors of reality with the distant far future in its entirety and multiplicity of manifestations, that again are also ONE...efficient cause with all its rightful efficiency, ( don´t mind the redundancy) which always "speaks" of the here and now, sidesteps this vision, by which everything once in contact is to be forever related...but the only point in all this, for evermore we all can be related, is that I still be, what "I", function, IS, while "YOU", function to me, will still be you...there the reason why I said Dasein goes half way and has half insights, I don´t think he fully grasps the full film...at best he has some intuitions and makes a mess with it...now, from there to the fall of duality´s, like the empirical versus the rational goes a small step when all ends up functions upon functions in inter-related non linear frames of order...I could, insanely I take it, go on and say that the entire castle of western Philosophy fells apart shattered like thin ice...
...it all turns up INFORMATION, probably binary code...no distinction between "real" and imaginary...no distinction between abstract or concrete, once all the forms are bits of INFO assembled in an immense, humongous sequence...also no more distinction between software and hardware...even between "MATTER" and "SPIRIT" (whatever that means)...
Aesthetics, Ethics, Moral, Society´s City´s or simply networks of Systems...it all fuses in the very same THING...smaller and bigger clusters of Systems which have Functions and are themselves the Systems an higher order of Function in relation with other Meta-Systems...shall I go on ? Probably not...

JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 11:39 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
You might want to re-read that post a little more carefully.

Here's your 'game'. By 'putting up' all those 'philisophical/poetic/quaint' words, you attempt to create for each reader the mere thought of a 'poet/philosopher/someone who is 'deep'. You do this as a sad attempt to define your 'self' through these 'words' and live off the feedback you receive from the readers who have been 'hypnotized' by the words and the 'thoughts/conceptualizations' attached to them. If you read what you've posted more carefully you'll notice that it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and is a sad attempt at recognition through a refusal to 'look inside' and see who you are.

You need to wake your 'self' up and stop hiding from behind these words.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 11:48 pm
@JPLosman0711,
What does not make sense really ??? Go for it !!! point me to it...either you can compute it in your mind or you can´t...just that !
...re-read and learn...
 

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