In the news: Lack of parenting

@aidan,

aidan wrote:

Quote:
Just cut off their legs.

Fortunately, that's almost never necessary because the reality is that most people who are parents actually love their children, and are able to find a workable middle ground between crippling them by protecting them from life itself and giving them knives to play with or leaving hot air balloons at their disposal to use at their whim and six year old discretion.

This is borne out by the fact that most children - millions and millions in fact- go to school every day without carrying knives - never set another child on fire- and actually make it through to adulthood in one piece.

It's called common sense. And a lot of parents actually do exhibit some.
It's so interesting to me that the bulk of the defense here is toward those parents who haven't....

Once again we agree

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

Your pretended ignorance is not nearly so charming as you suppose.

1 Reply

@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

I am an American, and I am profoundly disturbed by some of the trends that seem to be happening, and the number of people who agree with me sure seems to be growing.

dlowan essentially has it right, the schools claim that they must take a zero tolerance approach, must be the hammer, in large part to the legal liability that they expose themselves to if they do not. I think that administrators and boards should take the risk and do the right thing, but then I don't pay their liability insurance bills either.

I have no problem with zero tolerance of weapons in schools. In fact, I strongly support it.

I am criticizing the fact that there appears to be no ability to apply sanity in terms of consequences.

I profoundly disagree with systems where the rules are such that there is no ability to temper response to the circumstances of the offence.

Eg: Had the kid in question had a history of violence and bringing weapons to school, sure, big hammer.

Confiscate his knife for a time...whatever....but REFORM SCHOOL for 45 days????

Of course, the punishment exceeded the crime. However, the topic was on parenting...NOT the punishment metered out by the school. That is another topic.

No punishment would have come into the picture if the parents had not made the knife available to the child. That is the topic.

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@dlowan,

Is the problem that you expected the lad to serve the 45 days, or that the school board mandated the 45 days in the first place?

A little research reveals that his "sentence" was not carried out.

updated 8:30 a.m. ET, Wed., Oct . 14, 2009
Yesterday he faced 45 days in reform school. This morning, Zachary Christie is on his way to school for the first time since he made the mistake of taking his favorite camping utensil to school and ran into his Delaware school system's zero-tolerance policy.

Boy avoids reform school over utensil
Oct. 14: A 6-year-old boy who was facing a lengthy punishment for bringing a camping utensil to school has gotten a reprieve from the school board. NBC’s Rehema Ellis reports.

In the case of the balloon boy, it seems that charges may be laid. If so, then bad parenting is evident.

After a second interview late Saturday with Richard and Mayumi Heene " the parents of the now-infamous balloon boy " Larimer County, Colo., Sheriff Jim Alderden says that misdemeanor charges will now "likely be filed" against one or both the parents.

1 Reply

@roger,

roger wrote:

Your pretended ignorance is not nearly so charming as you suppose.

I have no prentended ignorance. And, how would you know what I suppose and what I do not? You are, indeed, a wonder if you do.

Perhaps you could explain so that even I could understand what you are talking about.

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

Again....that apparently there is no ability to react according to circumstance.

Although it appears that, presumably due to the reaction, the Board has discovered it has the power to be look at the circumstances.

The Balloon Boy thing appears to be simply idiot personing, as it seems the child was not ever involved.

One shivers for the kids though if this guy turns out to have done this as a stunt.

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@Intrepid,

Intrepid wrote:

roger wrote:

Your pretended ignorance is not nearly so charming as you suppose.

I have no prentended ignorance. And, how would you know what I suppose and what I do not? You are, indeed, a wonder if you do.

Perhaps you could explain so that even I could understand what you are talking about.

Intrepid wrote:

roger wrote:

By the way, I would consider a jack knife to be a great deal more weaponlike than a scout knife or Swiss Army knife.

The difference being? Or, which one doesn't have a blade?

I still don't believe you are this ignorant. You might be able to convince me.

1 Reply

@roger,

I'm quite confused about the meaning of Reform School for 6 year olds, too.
I'd be extremely surprised if any state of the US would be allowed to treat a six year old like this. Maybe the term has another meaning?: :

Quote:

It means a jail for juveniles. One or two bunks per cell, usually. Line up for head count, march to breakfast, march to classrooms, march to controlled exercise, and at the end of the day, another head count before marching back to the cell. Cells have bars or metal mesh on the doors and windows. The exercise yard has chain link fencing with razor wire on top. Your kid gets to meet interesting people.

It differs from the county jail in that the juvenile record cannot be accessed after the prisoner becomes an adult.

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@roger,

roger wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

roger wrote:

Your pretended ignorance is not nearly so charming as you suppose.

I have no prentended ignorance. And, how would you know what I suppose and what I do not? You are, indeed, a wonder if you do.

Perhaps you could explain so that even I could understand what you are talking about.

Intrepid wrote:

roger wrote:

By the way, I would consider a jack knife to be a great deal more weaponlike than a scout knife or Swiss Army knife.

The difference being? Or, which one doesn't have a blade?

I still don't believe you are this ignorant. You might be able to convince me.

Rather than using snide remarks and innuendos, perhaps you could be a man and actually state what you are trying to say. If you are able.

I assume you are talking about your original comments on degrees of weapons with knives. If so, then you are the ignorant one. Each one has a blade. Where is the difference? The size of blade has no bearing.

1 Reply

@dlowan,

Quote:

What on earth do you mean ""with intent"?

When I said, 'With intent, ' I was referring to the children who had previously brought weapons to school with intent and actually have killed children and teachers - they are the people whose actions have led the US school administrators to set this precedent of zero tolerance.

I don't believe this little boy had any such intent. But do I believe that a six year old with a knife has to have intent to hurt himself or another child? No. I believe he can be innocently playing and hurt himself or someone else. That's why it's a good idea for six year olds not to be able to play with knives unattended - at school or at home.

Quote:

Why do you automatically assume these are bad parents?

If you can find where I called these parents 'bad' I wish you'd show me. I think I said that it was the parents' responsibility to keep the knife out of her son's hands while he was unattended.
We all make mistakes as parents - live and learn- as she undoubtedly has.

I never said the boy deserved this extreme punishment. I never said the parents were bad. I only agreed with the original poster that it should have been the parent who had monitored the child with the knife and if his mom or dad had - none of this would have ever happened.

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@dlowan,

Quote:

You seem always to assume I am blaming people...is it because you do?

Um, no.

Quote:

Rather than blame anyone trying to deal with this stuff, (I will leave that to you),

No thanks - I don't pretend to have all the sane and reasonable answers.

Quote:

I am trying to say that it is only sane and reasonable to accept that there is NO way to prevent some stuff from going wrong in schools (and other places) and that panicked resorts to utterly rigid protocols is not a good answer.

Well yeah - you might feel that way. I'm sure most people would - except for the people who have had children killed by weapons brought to school - either with intent or totally without intent. And then those people might feel that zero tolerance and rigid protocols are warranted.

Quote:

I don't think there IS a perfect answer, and I think that we just have to live with that, and support schools when they react with sense and reason to particular circumstances.

That assumes that everyone will see the same sense and reason when their child is treated differently than someone elses child for the same infraction.

Quote:

Tell me, if this was, indeed, a little kid who took his knife to school simply to show his mates, and that he had never done such a thing before, and was not known to be violent at all, do you actually think the mandated consequence was reasonable, or do you think that common sense might dictate a lesser response?

I think common sense should have dictated that the mom take the knife from the child. Then this wouldn't have happened at all.
In the event that common sense was not used by the mother, I don't really see how the school board can impartially and objectively mete out a punishment to one person for one infraction but not to another.
Maybe they should revisit their stance on this policy.

It's a sad and bad situation...but whether the intent was there or not - what would have happened if this kid was running with this implement in his hand on the playground and fell on it...yeah...guess what - those sort of things happen to kids all the time. The knife should not have been at school- the mother should have kept it in her possession except when she was supervising him.

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@roger,

Where are these reform schools for six year olds located?

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Aidan you're just plain hysterical the way you're jumping all over the subject -
at one time agreeing with Walter that kids need to test their boundaries and
at the same time you're advocating that a child needs to be searched for "weapons" on a daily basis. Perhaps you've never seen a Swiss army knife (for kids) - to call it a "weapon" fits your hysterical mind.

The good old American boy scouts use them every time, and so far no reports
have come in that the boys kill each other with their Swiss army knives. Isn't
it ironic that a boy scout can use it properly but the very next day, he's
a dangerous little kid because he brought it to school to show off it off to his
friends.

Of course you blame the parents immediately, as they have not searched
their kids backpack, as you probably did, or expect others to do.

Common sense is something you agree upon but sadly don't have yourself,
at least not here.

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

Intrepid, I like you but you seem to have no humor at all. Taking roger's
joke seriously or dlowan when she said "cut off their feet" ......really, it should
have told you something....

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

Again - please find me one of my posts where I said children should be searched for weapons.

I said, in my first post - the mother should have known her son would be excited to show his friends his new knife. She should have foreseen this, and knowing it would be trouble at school, she should have put it up for him to use with supervision.

In fact I said that I have never needed to search my children's backpacks - because I didn't give them weapons for toys or if someone did - I put it away until they were old enough to handle the item without hurting themselves or others.

A knife is a knife. If the blade is sharp enough to cut meat or carve wood - it can certainly cut skin.

If you choose to let your six year olds play with knives - that's your prerogative and I'll pray for their good fortune. I however would not let my six year old play with a knife - I also advised them not to run with lollipops in their mouths.

A boy scout is between the ages of 11-17 for your information. They are called tiger cubs when they are this child's age and knives are not part of their initiation, okay?

I think you should reread the posts - mine, and yours and tell me who sounds hysterical.
Or never mind....the name calling has started - you carry on by yourself=- hopefully you'll be fulfilled when everyone sees it your way.

1 Reply

Kids do stupid things all the time, and things that we might think are stupid but they don't. They're children, for heaven's sake, and you can't have discussed every possible action with them by the time they're 6, or even 12. Their reasoning powers are still developing, and earlier, they're practically non-existent. You shouldn't punish a child for being ignorant; you teach.

And parents, Aidan, CANNOT possibly know everything their child is doing every minute of every day. That's IMPOSSIBLE. You always sound like you're the perfect parent, but I would bet your kids hide things from you all the time. It's natural. So blaming the parents is just asinine. No one is all-seeing and all-knowing. You'd do well to be a little less righteous and more tolerant or at least open to the possibility that the parents just weren't aware instead of crucifying them.

Yes, the school over-reacted. Way over-reacted. An explanation to the child would have been more appropriate and an order not to bring the knife back to school. This over-reaction to children's behaviour is getting crazy. Remember that kindergarten boy who kissed a girl on the cheek? I believe he was suspended and they were considering sexual harassment charges! Five years old and charged with sexual harassment?? Absolute lunacy.

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@aidan,

aidan wrote:

you carry on by yourself=- hopefully you'll be fulfilled when everyone sees it your way.

Most of them do already! Very Happy

1 Reply

@Mame,

Quote:

And parents, Aidan, CANNOT possibly know everything their child is doing every minute of every day. That's IMPOSSIBLE.

Again - read the posts. Intrepid said this - not me.
Although I'm like him in that I do think a parent should know where his or her six year old is at any given moment.

Quote:

You shouldn't punish a child for being ignorant; you teach.

Yes, and the parent had the perfect opportunity to do that when she told the little boy after taking the knife and putting it away to be used under supervision at home and not at school, 'Let's make sure this stays at home.'
It was not the teacher's job to deal with the knife - it was the mother's and father's.

Quote:

You'd do well to be a little less righteous and more tolerant or at least open to the possibility that the parents just weren't aware instead of crucifying them.

I haven't crucified anyone. In fact, I said - we all make mistakes as parents - live and learn.

Wow - if I ever wanted an a2k babysitter - so far I think I'd go with Intrepid and Sullyfish. At least I'd know my six year old wouldn't be playing with knives.

In the news: Lack of parenting

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