In the news: Lack of parenting

@sozobe,

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You seem to be reacting to something I didn't say.

I'm reacting to this:

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For example, with the Swiss Army knife, I don't think there would have been the same outcry if a teacher had said, "hey, careful with that thing, I'll hold on to it until the end of the day,"

Which you DID say.

If the teacher had done that, and the same child or another child had brought a knife to school and was treated differently - you better believe there'd be hell to pay for that teacher when it came to light that she'd not followed the directive of the school system the first time for the first child - or had reacted differently when another child did the same thing later.

Teachers do not make up these rules. The administration of the the specific school districts do and they do it because PARENTS are so ******* litigious and willing to point the finger at everyone else but their own child or themselves.

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You think that six-year-old should have spent 45 days at reform school for this?

In fact - I NEVER said this. But if this is what my school district had determined - I assure you it would have been without any teacher's input.
Would I follow the handbook and turn the knife into the principal. YES!

Why? Because I would not want to lose my job for insubordination and I also realize that I do not live in the house with any of these specific children, I have no idea what goes on in their homes, I have no way of discerning who is a good parent, I do not have ESP. I have known wonderful single moms who do an incredible job of parenting on a subsistence income and I have known kids who tell me they cook spaghetti and eat it with Ragu sauce all by themselves every night who come from two parent homes in gated communities with both parents who are MD's.

I would never put a child in my classroom at risk by thinking I knew more about him or her and his situation than I did. So if s/he were unattended enough to bring a weapon to school- I would follow the rules and report it.

If the consequences were too severe for the infraction - that'd be for the school board who originally put the rules in place to decide. I'm only there to teach the children.

It's funny that every person I asked about this who has in fact parented a child said that the only situation that was NOT in the control of the parent was the one where the child set fire to the other child. Every other parent agreed they could have controlled the possession of the knife - the positioning of the balloon and the attitude of the child toward authority.

1 Reply

@aidan,

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It's funny that every person I asked about this who has in fact parented a child said that the only situation that was NOT in the control of the parent was the one where the child set fire to the other child. Every other parent agreed they could have controlled the possession of the knife - the positioning of the balloon and the attitude of the child toward authority.

Of course these were English parents - not American - hopefully that's not what makes the difference.
I know my parents were able to control my behavior - and that was in America.
And somehow I was able to make sure that my children never brought a weapon to school, or had the opportunity to maybe have disappeared in a hot air balloon... neither one of them ever even got sent to the principal...and that was MOSTLY in America too.

And you know what - if they had - I'd have expected them and even WANTED them to have to experience the consequences of their actions- unless they were only six- and then I'd have expected to have been held responsible for handing them a knife for a birthday present or leaving a hot air balloon at their disposal without appropriate supervision.

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1. Kid who bought the swiss army knife to school. PARENT SHOULD HAVE KNOWN WHERE THE KNIFE WAS AT ALL TIMES. ZERO TOLERANCE LAW FOR SCHOOLS LEFT OFFICIALS WITH NO ALTERNATIVE.
2. kid who refused to recite the pledge at school. PARENTS KNEW OF THIS CHILD'S STRONG FEELINGS (IF IT EVEN CAME FROM A KID - I DOUBT IT - BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE LET THE TEACHER KNOW THAT THEIR CHILD WOULD NOT BE RECITING THE PLEDGE (CERTAIN RELIGONS ALSO ARE EXEMPT) THE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL.
3. teen kids who set another kid on fire in Fl. PARENTS NOT WATCHING WHO THEIR KID HANGS AROUND. THIS IS MOST LIKELY NOT THE FIRST TIME OF SOME THESE KIDS HAVE ACTED OUT IN THIS MANNER. OTHER KIDS WERE THE FOLLOWERS. CHARLIE MANSON NEVER HAD TROUBLE RECRUITING VUNERABLE PEOPLE HE COULD CONTROL.
4. kid who was thought to be carried away by a hot air balloon DCONTRAPTION IN THE YARD NOT SECURED PROPERLY. NOT INSTILLING IN THE KID TO STAY AWAY (MORE NEWS ON THIS LATER)

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@sullyfish6,

I hardly can wait! Rolling Eyes

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@sozobe,

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I think 45 days at reform school for bringing a swiss army knife to school, as described in that article, is overreacting. The school board agreed. You seem to be disagreeing with what I'm saying but I'm not sure what. You think that six-year-old should have spent 45 days at reform school for this?

Exactly my thinking on the "other" thread.
There is no need for any child to bring a knife to school at all.
But the "punishment" for this "crime" (by a 6 year old) was completely over the top.

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@sullyfish6,

In your opinion, Sully, is anyone except a parent or guradian ever responsible for a child's behavior? I mean, at what age does a child become responsible for some of his/her own actions? Or don't we, as parents, teach kids to be responsible any more? (Now I'm thinking particularly of the balloon debacle; if the parents weren't in on it, then I can hold them in no way responsible except in the sense of not having instilled in the child a sense of responsibility. They neither can, nor should, watch a child every moment of the day.)

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@Merry Andrew,

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As far as knives, the culture in which I grew up, any boy of school age or older would normally carry a jacknife as part of his standard equipment. You peeled apples with it, cut your sandwich with it, etc. etc. etc. Using a knife as a weapon? Why would a strapping able-bodied boy need a weapon? We fought in the schoolyard with no weapons. To use a weapon would have been seen as cowardly.

Perhaps times have changed, MA? Speaking from very recent experience (in Oz, admittedly not in the US) knives have become a very real problem in a number of schools (& on the street as well) with adolescents & young adults, particularly males. It would be extremely unusual for students to bring guns to school, but knives have become the "weapon of choice" of a growing number of adolescents, who often claim (usually after the damage has been done) that they carry them for "protection". Knives (all sorts, including kitchen knives) have become an unfortunate feature of "gang warfare" here. It is simply in the interests of safety in schools (& on the streets) that young people are strongly discouraged from carrying them. They have caused too much damage already. I can't for the life of me see any pressing need for any student to bring one to school. I guess you could argue that it's the users of the knives & knives themselves aren't the problem, but who the hell wants to continually policing such things as part of their work as an educator? I certainly don't.

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@sullyfish6,

sullyfish

The sad reality is that parents often honestly have no idea of what their children actually get up to. I think it's fair to say that young people have a lot more autonomy from their parents now, via the internet, cell phones, than we ever had. Things happen which parents know absolutely nothing about. An example: a girl in a school in my state committed suicide after months of really vicious internet & text peer bullying from her peers. Her mother (as reported in the press) knew the girl was depressed, but thought she'd be OK after talking with her. She (the mother) had absolutely no idea of the extent of the harassment her daughter had been experiencing at the hands of her classmates. The parents of the girls who were harassing this girl probably had know idea of what their children had been up to, either. Young people often simply do not confide in their parents, teachers, or anyone else about these things. Really, it's a whole different culture, a whole new ball game parents are trying to come to grips with.

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@sullyfish6,

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THEY SHOULD HAVE LET THE TEACHER KNOW THAT THEIR CHILD WOULD NOT BE RECITING THE PLEDGE (CERTAIN RELIGONS ALSO ARE EXEMPT) THE FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL...

This makes a bit of sense, actually. (Would have been better without the block letters, though. Wink

)
If the school had known in advance (and had informed the replacement teacher about the situation) about the student's conscientious objections to reciting the oath, the whole schamozzle might never have occurred at all. Then, if the school had any "problem" with the parents' position, it would have been an issue between the parents & the school & local authority (I presume). It should never have reached the stage it did.

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@Merry Andrew,

Merry Andrew wrote:

As far as knives, the culture in which I grew up, any boy of school age or older would normally carry a jacknife as part of his standard equipment. You peeled apples with it, cut your sandwich with it, etc. etc. etc. Using a knife as a weapon? Why would a strapping able-bodied boy need a weapon? We fought in the schoolyard with no weapons. To use a weapon would have been seen as cowardly.

Ah, for the good old days. How times have changed.

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@Merry Andrew,

Merry Andrew wrote:

In your opinion, Sully, is anyone except a parent or guradian ever responsible for a child's behavior? I mean, at what age does a child become responsible for some of his/her own actions? Or don't we, as parents, teach kids to be responsible any more? (Now I'm thinking particularly of the balloon debacle; if the parents weren't in on it, then I can hold them in no way responsible except in the sense of not having instilled in the child a sense of responsibility. They neither can, nor should, watch a child every moment of the day.)

It is the responsibility of good parents to "watch a child every moment of the day", or at least know of their activities.

Why would the parents leave such a device in an area where it could be easily untethered by their child or any other child.

If they are, in fact, responsible for the event to gain attention etc. then they should be financially liable for the cost of the rescue efforts that were made along with the cost for unnecessary use of the police and other agencies.

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@Intrepid,

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It is the responsibility of good parents to "watch a child every moment of the day", or at least know of their activities.

Ha. As if that's possible, Intrepid! (I'm not talking about the "balloon incident" here. A can of worms. Who knows what the real situation was there? Confused

)

No parent (or teacher, either, BTW) can watch every child, every minute of the day. Or know about everything a child might do every day, either. They can try their best, but children do have ways of enjoying autonomous moments, you know! Wink

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@Intrepid,

That's it. Put a minicam with audio in their bedrooms, and around the inner perimeter fence.

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@roger,

I was thinking more of a subcutaneous implant that would monitor a child's whereabouts 24/7.

1 Reply

@msolga,

msolga wrote:

The sad reality is that parents often honestly have no idea of what their children actually get up to.

I'm glad they didn't! (I suppose, I still would have to stay in my room .... NOW! Wink

)

Honestly, I think that children (and youth) should need to experience their borders.
But once they've found them - and that changes from age to age - they have to eccept them.
THAT is, in my opinion, what parents should teach. As well as school as others .... who've taken over the traditional role which parents had decades ago.

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@Merry Andrew,

No wonder you get the big bucks.

I still like the inner and outer fencing, though. With a "dead zone" between them.

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@roger,

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I still like the inner and outer fencing, though. With a "dead zone" between them.

Some sort of non-lethal, physically harmless minefield in the dead zone perhaps?

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@Merry Andrew,

Just cut off their legs.

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@dlowan,

That'll do the trick!

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@dlowan,

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Just cut off their legs.

Fortunately, that's almost never necessary because the reality is that most people who are parents actually love their children, and are able to find a workable middle ground between crippling them by protecting them from life itself and giving them knives to play with or leaving hot air balloons at their disposal to use at their whim and six year old discretion.

This is borne out by the fact that most children - millions and millions in fact- go to school every day without carrying knives - never set another child on fire- and actually make it through to adulthood in one piece.

It's called common sense. And a lot of parents actually do exhibit some.
It's so interesting to me that the bulk of the defense here is toward those parents who haven't....

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