19
   

Quick answers to US politics queries for those of us not in the know.

 
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 06:18 am
@msolga,
In addition to what Francis has told you, Miss Olga, about the GOP, the Grand Old Party, i would make this observation: the American Civil War was fought, on the Federal side, by the Republican Party. The first Republican President was Abraham Lincoln. Most of those who fought were in a category referred to as United States Volunteers, and neither professional soldiers, nor members of the militia. After the war, they formed a veterans organization known as the Grand Army of the Republic, the GAR. Obviously, it quickly became common for newspaper men to refer to any activity of veterans of the war with the acronym GAR. Although not all of those who fought for the Federal government were Republicans--many were Democrats--the GAR and the Republican Party became allied in the public mind. Calling the Republicans the GOP, the Grand Old Party, fit in nicely with referring to the veterans as the GAR.
0 Replies
 
Letty
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 06:34 am
@msolga,
msolga, strange that you should start this thread. My cleaning lady, Nancy, will become naturalized soon. I was stunned at some of the questions that the board will ask her. Much of it is memory work. I tried to explain that memorizing things about American history and American government is worthless unless one understands the original intent. I promised that I would try and be her mentor. She said that she would like for us to exchange heads and I smiled telling her that what I knew about Colombia could be compressed in a thimble.

David, my next door neighbor is a Vietnam vet, and he supported Nixon as well. I tried to explain about why many Americans disliked him, but he was firm in his resolution. As I have often noted, so much depends on the setting event.

For some reason, the Republican party featured as its mascot an elephant.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2208/1765575271_f52031cc49_o.gif

The democrats, a rooster or a donkey.

http://americanhistory.si.edu/presidency/images/medium/96-2889_M.jpg

Why, I don't know.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 06:51 am

I was not aware of the rooster.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 06:56 am
@Letty,
Letty wrote:

David, my next door neighbor is a Vietnam vet,
and he supported Nixon as well. I tried to explain about
why many Americans disliked him, but he was firm in his resolution.
As I have often noted, so much depends on the setting event.
When I chose to work for Nixon in 1960 and in 1968,
I did so with the vu that I was endeavoring to elevate to office
the pro-freedom candidate and to work against the anti-freedom candidates (both foreign & domestic).

That was my motivation; that was my remuneration.

(That is fact, not argument, Olga.)





David
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 08:17 am
@msolga,
MsOlga, quoting Wikipedia's Tom Paine article wrote:
Quote:
His principal contributions were the powerful, widely-read pamphlet Common Sense (1776), advocating colonial America's independence from the Kingdom of Great Britain, and The American Crisis (1776"1783), a pro-revolutionary pamphlet series.

Ah, now I understand the Glenn Beck connection from your earlier post, Roger.

The difference is, Thomas Paine's pamphlets still kick ass.... sorry, that's not the objective way to put it.

New try: There are those who would say that Thomas Paine's writing still is well worth reading, whereas Glenn Beck's never were. It could be concluded, then, that it would be a mistake to judge a book by its title.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 07:47 pm
@msolga,
So he wrote a book name Common Sense? He is no Tomas Paine however.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 07:59 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
...
The difference is, Thomas Paine's pamphlets still kick ass.... sorry, that's not the objective way to put it. ...


yet accurate ?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 08:23 pm
@Thomas,
I just wonder if Mr. Beck even knew that the author of Common Sense happen be had been a left wing Atheist at least from Mr. Beck world view.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 02:10 am
I'm glad I started this thread. I've learned a lot in a very short time!:

- I now know who Glenn Beck is & have some considerable insight into his ideology. (Thank you, Rocky & Thomas.)
- I now know quite a bit more about two of the founding fathers than I ever knew before. (Thank you Rocky, David & Setanta.)
- I now know why the Republican Party is called "the grand old party" (GOP) (Thank you Francis, Setanta & Letty. Those were very informative posts.)
- I now know that the Republican Party symbol is an elephant & the Democrats symbol is a rooster (Thank you for that, Letty) but that no one seems to know why, exactly (especially the rooster) ...
- I now know that there are 2 books called Common Sense. One written by Thomas Paine which has widespread respected status in the US, and another more recent book with the same title, written by Glenn Beck, which is considered decidedly more "controversial".

I've also learned that just about anything about US politics seems open to interpretation, debate ... sometimes involving quite a deal of passion. Interesting, very interesting. Smile

Well, those are all my questions for the time being. I will most certainly return (probably very soon) with more questions as they come up. In the meantime, anyone else outside the US is most welcome to post their requests for information/clarification here.

This has been wonderful! Thank you to all who contributed! Smile
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 02:42 am
msolga wrote:
I now know that the Republican Party symbol is an elephant & the Democrats symbol is a rooster (Thank you for that, Letty) but that no one seems to know why, exactly (especially the rooster) ...

However, there's some stories that seem likely:
http://www.hmdb.org/Photos/0/Photo772.jpg

And this:

The Rooster: Its Origin as the Emblem of the Democratic Party
by
John Fowler Mitchell, Jr., Associate Editor of the Journal of American History


OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 02:48 am

Before reading this thread,
I 'd not have recognized a rooster as representing the Democrats.
Thay are, of course, represented by the ass.
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 02:54 am
@OmSigDAVID,
You should know that the democrats choose the rooster as their emblem because "it's the only bird that manages to sing with its feet deep in ****"..
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 03:05 am
@Francis,
Quote:
"The emblem of the Democratic party at the time of President Jackson's administration was the hickory pole and broom. About the year I840 there was a Democrat living in Indiana named Chapman who was known in all his neighborhood for his gift of crowing like a rooster. One story is that in reply to a desponding letter of Chapman about the political situation in the presidential election of 1840, in which William Henry Harrison was the candidate against Van Buren, a friend wrote an encouraging letter ending with the words, 'Crow, Chapman, Crow!'

"Another account makes the letter pass between two friends and ending with the words, 'Tell Chapman to Crow.' The letter, whichever it was, was published and the phrase spread. In 1842 and 1844, after Democratic victories in those years, the Rooster came into general use as the emblem of Democratic victory."


Thanks, Francis. You may be onto something here! Smile

Now lets see what Setanta makes of this!
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 03:07 am
@OmSigDAVID,
So David, can you briefly enlighten us on the elephant & the Republicans?
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 03:44 am
Although the Democrats like to claim that their party was established by Thomas Jefferson (whose Democratic-Republican Party was usually referred to as the Republicans), in fact, the modern party was established by Andrew Jackson from the wreckage of the Republicans. They were seen as increasingly aristocratic, and the party of the Southern slave-owning "aristocrats" at the beginning of what has since been named the "era of the common man." The Democratic-Republicans had become so powerful that James Monroe was unopposed in 1820. In 1824, Jackson won the popular vote and the electoral vote, but not a majority of the electoral vote. The election was thrown into the House of Representatives, where the speaker, John C. Calhoun absolutely hated Jackson. He is quoted as saying: "I cannot believe that killing 2,500 Englishmen at New Orleans qualifies for the various, difficult, and complicated duties of the Chief Magistracy." (That refers to Jackson's famous victory over English veterans of the Napoleonic Wars in January, 1815, when the war was actually over, although the news had not yet reached the combatants there.)

Since Mr. Speaker Calhoun wielded sufficient influence in the House, John Quincy Adams was chosen as President (Adams was the son of John Adams, famous patriot of the Revolution and second President of the United States). The Federalists had virtually ceased to exist, and both Jackson and Adams were Democratic-Republicans. Jackson was infuriated, but using the American dictum of "don't get mad, get even," he created a solid political organization from the ground up, along the lines he had used in Tennessee. The party was organized in each county of each state, with the wards and precincts in each county organized along military lines. Before the Battle of New Orleans, Jackson had successfully fought the Creek War of 1813, when the English provided guns and powder to Indians to attack American settlements. Jackson originally organized his Democratic-Republicans in Tennessee to win the Governor's mansion using the services of his Creek War veterans, who were by then militia officers in the counties of Tennessee. This organization was spread to all of the other states, and Jackson won the 1828 election against Adams handily. He won over 50% of the popular vote, but he absolutely buried Adams in the electoral college.

Because he was a martinet in military matters, although popular with his men, they said he was "as tough as old hickory," a legendarily hard wood of the American forests, and Old Hickory he became to his supporters in the South. The opposition in 1828 tried to portray him as a jackass, because he had once worked as a mule-skinner (he was also the first divorced man to reach the White House--neither slur would stick, though). Jackson quickly embraced the epithet, pointing out how courageous and tough jackasses are. His supporters, of course, used the term donkey, rather than jackass.

About 50 years pass, and enter Thomas Nast, nationally famous political cartoonist, political partisan and religious and racial bigot. Nast hated Democrats, because he associated them with Catholics in general and the Irish in particular. Nast lived and worked in New York, which he said was controlled by the Democratic political machine (he apparently never had any problem with the Republicans when their political machine controlled the city or the state, and he lived in the era of powerful political machines in all the states). The Democratic political machine was controlled by "Boss" Tweed, and Tammany Hall, the political machine of the Democratic Irish Catholics. So, in the 1870s, Nast drew this political cartoon:

http://www.c-span.org/questions/images/thomasnast.jpg

A hoax about animals escaping from the zoo had been foisted on the people of New York by the New York Herald, and Nast used that incident as the basis for his cartoon. I believe that the use of the donkey for the Democrats had faded, but Nast apparently knew of it. Note that the elephant is labeled "Republican voters"--Nast is saying that an opposing newspaper is attempting to scare away voters from giving Ulysses Grant a third term in the White House.

I don't know whether Republicans had previously been represented by an elephant--but this, i believe, is the first time the two parties were represented in this manner in the popular media. Nast was sufficiently popular that other journalist immediately adopted the symbolism, and the Republicans and Democrats have been represented in this manner ever since.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 04:03 am
@Setanta,
Thanks for that very colourful slice of history, Setanta. Interesting that a clever cartoon could have such a lasting impact!
(I love those old political cartoons!)

So David was actually correct about the ass/donkey being the Democrats' symbol (in the past, anyway)?
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 04:31 am
Let me give some more information on the American political lexicon. The greatest "hero" of the era of the common man was David Crockett, known invariably to Americans as Davey Crockett, a name he loathed. He wanted to be seen as a gentleman (something he never remotely approached), and was very much the dandy in his style of dress--wearing buckskins in the backwoods was not going to impress voters the majority of whom wore buckskin from necessity. He was one of Jackson's veterans of the Creek War, and a major in the militia, and he was able to get elected to the Tennessee legislature, where he was the despair of the Democrats, as he routinely championed causes in which the voters were not interested and the Democrats opposed. He was, however, one of Americans great political campaigners, and that lead him to win two terms in the United States House of Representatives, where he made himself just as odious to the Democrats as he had in the Tennessee legislature. After an unsuccessful attempt to financially exploit his newly found popularity as a backwoodsman (he actually wore buckskins in public, something he would never have dreamed of doing just a few years earlier), he returned to Tennessee, and soon ran for a third term in the House. The voters had long since been disabused of their illusions about him, though, and this time he lost. He had said that if he were not elected, the voters could go to Hell and he would go to Texas. He lost, and he wandered off to Arkansas, and eventually to Texas, where he managed to get himself killed at the Battle of the Alamo.

But Crockett had been a master of the "stump speech." On the western frontiers of the republic, settlements were so new that the stumps of the trees which had been felled to make a clearing for the town were still in evidence years later. Political candidates who were opponents would travel together, and arriving in a small settlement, would stand on a stump to address the crowd. So the standard, folksy, "I'm just a regular guy" speech of a political candidate has become known as a stump speech, something that Crockett was so good at that he won two terms in the House despite being a political disaster for his constituents.

Later, when candidates realized there was something a little sleazy about the opposing candidate traveling together to deliver their speeches, a new method was adopted. The candidate would arrive, and a stage would be erected where the candidate would "debate" an alleged opponent, who was actually a member of his own organization. Obviously, it was the job of the "opponent" to deliver a clumsy caricature of the opposing party's program, which the candidate could easily deride. The policies of a party became known as their "platform," and the individual aspects of the party's agenda became known as the "planks" of the "party platform."

Later still, when the nation had been crisscrossed with railroads, candidates wishing to appeal directly to the electorate would hire a special train, and the railroad companies would arrange their schedules conveniently for their travel (and at a hefty fee). The train would pull into a small town, and the candidate would address the crowd from the back of his special car. Since many small towns were not a regular stop on the railroad schedule, they would have a whistle which they blew to alert a train that they had passengers or freight to load. So the really small towns became known as whistle-stops, and the technique of running a popular campaign by going out to speak to the public has become known as a "whistle-stop campaign." Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. was one of the greatest whistle-stop campaigners. In his day, in the 1880s and -90s, presidential candidates did not campaign publicly themselves, it being seen as beneath their dignity--so surrogates would campaign for them, and Roosevelt was the greatest of these. When he ran for president himself in 1904, he broke to old taboo, and went out "whistle-stopping" himself--and won the greatest plurality in any contested election in our history.

Probably the most famous whistle-stop campaign of modern times was that of Harry Truman in 1948. Below is an image of Truman addressing a crowd from the back of his special car:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_k3UqzQLD6qY/SdqK_IFUFpI/AAAAAAAABJE/QODjOk3OYoU/s400/truman-whistle-stop.jpg

The newspaper pundits were confidently predicting that Truman would be defeated by his Republican opponent, Thomas Dewey, then governor of New York. Truman's aides advised him to give up the prepared speeches, and to "whistle-stop" to deliver "stump speeches," in the course of which he would outline the "planks" which made up his "platform." The newspaper editors were so confident that Dewey would defeat Truman, that before retiring for the night on election day, they had headlines set up proclaiming Dewey's victory over Truman. Truman, in a squeaker, won just a fraction of a percentage point below 50% of the vote, but he won a landslide in the electoral college. This lead to what is arguably the most famous photograph in American political history:

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/14/65214-004-5A49F3A6.jpg

Truman is holding up a copy of the Chicago Daily Tribune with it's headline claiming Dewey had defeated Truman, on the morning after the election which Truman had won. This image has become so well known in the American political scene, that it is used in other contexts:

http://www.13idol.com/images/obama_vs_clinton_polls.jpg

Here, it is used to make fun of those who claimed Hillary Clinton would easily defeat Mr. Obama for the Democratic nomination.

http://scottdiatribe.gluemeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/mccain_defeats_mccain.jpg

Here it was used with a headline which read: "McCain defeats McCain" suggesting that in supporting Mr. Bush's $700+ billion bailout package, McCain was being his own worst enemy.

If i think of anything else in the way of political Americana, i'll post it.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 04:32 am
@msolga,
The donkey is the symbol of the Democratic party to this day. In calling it an ass, David is revealing his partisan bigotry.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 06:50 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

So David, can you briefly enlighten us on the elephant & the Republicans?
I don 't remember; possibly, I don 't know.

The choice was probably related to sound memory
and strength, large size; without researching it, I can 't say with certainty.

At the moment, my laziness (which is exceeded only by my torpor) propels me inexorably to my bed.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 12:56 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Not to worry, David. Setanta's (2nd last) post here explains that elephant with lots of colour & movement! Smile
 

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