19
   

Airline bomber getting out of prison

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 08:17 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

If the law would have allowed the minister to make him serve out his court sentence, then we're back to the wisdom of releasing a mass murderer.


You obviously forgot that there was ab appeal going on wgich would have lasted some time.

Quote:
“I was conscious that there are deeply held feelings, and that many would disagree whatever my decision,” MacAskill told the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh today. “However a decision had to be made. It was based on the law of Scotland, and the values I believe we seek to uphold. It was not based on political, diplomatic or economic considerations.”
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 08:34 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
are you claiming that society has no right to punish criminals?


Are you claiming that American "society" has some right to influence the laws in another country?
America does not have a right
to influence Scotch law (meaning that the Scotch
have no duty to submit to our will) but, in recognition
of the fact that avenging our citizens is one of
the 2 principal reasons for creating a government,
it is not out of line for the American government
to advocate in favor of avenging the deceased and their families.

In other words:
we have a right to express our opinion,
without extortion of the Scotch.





David
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 09:47 am
Video of the debate today in the Scottish parliament which was recalled one week earlier for this "emergency debate":

http://video.stv.tv/?bcpid=1610699553&bctid=35110337001


From the STV-website:

Quote:
Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill has faced questions from opposition party leaders in the Scottish Parliament, following his statement on the release of Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds.

Scottish Labour leader Iain Gray described Mr MacAskill's decision as the "wrong decision made in the wrong way, with the wrong consequences".

Mr Gray claimed the silent majority in Scotland had been "angered" by Megrahi's release.

"Does he understand how ashamed we were to see our flag flying to welcome a convicted bomber home?" he said.

He added: "The cabinet secretary has mishandled this whole affair from start to finish.

"Between the scenes of triumph in Tripoli and the pain and anger at home and abroad, is there nothing Mr MacAskill now regrets about his decision and the way it was reached?"

Scottish Tory leader Annabel Goldie said she would never forget her "disbelief and horror" at the time of the bombing.

She commented: "I want to make clear that the decision to release Mr Megrahi was not done in the name of Scotland or in the name of this Parliament or in my name.

"It was a decision made by Mr Salmond's SNP Government and Mr Salmond's minister."

She asked why Megrahi could not have been released to a "secure house or a hospice or a hospital".

"Is this SNP government seriously suggesting that our Scottish police who coped so admirably with security arrangements for G8 leaders could not adequately protect Mr Megrahi?"

She said that using 48 police officers to look after Mr Megrahi for a few weeks would be a "small price to pay" to protect Scotland's international reputation.

"Compassion and justice would have been better served by that approach than by a convicted terrorist being feted as a hero in Libya to a backdrop of waving saltires," Ms Goldie added.

But Mr MacAskill said the suggestion that Mr Megrahi may have gone to a hospice was "ludicrous"

Residents of hospices are looking for "dignity in their last few moments" Mr MacAskill said but would have been faced with a "travelling circus" if Megrahi had been admitted.

Mr MacAskill said he had to follow the security advice from Strathclyde Police.

Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Tavish Scott said Scotland's international reputation was "failing not growing" as a result of the decision.

He said: "This Parliament has been recalled too late to influence the justice secretary.

"That is wrong."

Mr Scott said that the Justice Secretary did not need to visit Megrahi in Greenock Prison and that a "written representation" was all that was needed.

The Lib Dem leader added: "How many more can elect to have the Minister visit them in their cell, even if they have a well-paid and well-equipped set of lawyers perfectly able to help them write a letter?

"And doesn't Kenny MacAskill's comment on the need for Scottish compassion mean that no prisoner - however bad their crime - will ever have a request turned down?"

But Mr MacAskill said former Lib Dem justice minister Jim Wallace had released a "child killer" from a life sentence on compassionate grounds.

He also quoted former Lib Dem leader Lord Steel who came out in support of the decision to release Megrahi.

There could be no vote over the matter in Holyrood due to the emergency nature of the debate.

The Scottish Parliament returns in a week, and the Lockerbie case is likely to remain on the agenda.




Last updated: 24 August 2009, 16:40
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  5  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 10:01 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


What 's the difference,
if he 's as good as dead already ?


Isn't there a common law tradition to free terminally ill prisoners on compassionate grounds during major religious holidays, like Christmas?

Ramadan (the major Moslem holiday) started on the day the man was freed - apparently with only weeks to live. That's massive goodwill in the Arab world, plus the UK is running out of North Sea oil and gas, while Libya has vast quantities of both to export. Seems like a sensible deal all around.
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 10:27 am
@High Seas,
Right on, Helen.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 10:36 am
@Merry Andrew,
I have both Helen and Merry on ignore because I really detest when I read one of their posts and agree with them, It's just not in my character to be agreeable.
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 01:24 pm
@dyslexia,
That's okay, dys. I've had you on ignore forever. Maybe longer.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 01:26 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
without extortion of the Scotch.


"Scotch" refers to whisky or adhesive tape. The people of Scotland are (the) Scottish. Getting this wrong really annoys them, and it is dumb.

High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 03:11 pm
@contrex,
Scots is no good? How about Mary, queen of Scots?
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 03:15 pm
@Merry Andrew,
So true, Andrew - we both have him on ignore, and conversely, so any knowledge he has of our postings unless otherwise repeated by third parties must necessarily originate with his telepathic powers. Where is S-glass and her riveting description of your mentalist medium cat, I wonder Smile
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 03:32 pm

Mary, Queen of Scotch was Queen of the Silver Bawbee until she fell off her favourite bar stool and broke her hip.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 05:07 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
are you claiming that society has no right to punish criminals?


Are you claiming that American "society" has some right to influence the laws in another country?

Where in God's name do you get that from? I certainly haven't said that or hinted at it. This is a place for people to express opinions, or did I get that wrong?
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 05:09 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

When you say, "vengeance is mine, saith the lord," are you claiming that society has no right to punish criminals? Because if society does have that right, it should punish them in proportion to their crimes. And if that's so, then a person who puts a bomb on an airliner and murders hundreds, including children, should receive the severest possible punishment.

This guy is about to receive the ultimate penalty and depending on your beliefs, the ultimate judgement. You are spending a lot of emotional units on something that will be concluded shortly. I see your point about law and order, but letting someone who is about to die off a couple of months early is not going to lessen the deterent effect of a life sentence. I do think that to the average Lybian and more generally to the wider Mid-East, seeing an act of compassion from a Western country will do more to stem terrorism than letting a prisioner rot in jail. If you want to wield the stick, you have to have a few carrots and in the big picture, this is a cheap carrot.

So, do you advocate letting every murder with a fatal disease out of prison, no matter how horrible or numerous the murders he committed? I certainly do not. There simply have to be some acts s0 cruel and evil that they merit a severe government punishment.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 05:41 pm
@Brandon9000,
EhBeth wrote;

Are you claiming that American "society" has some right to influence the laws in another country?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hell yes as a very large percent of the victims happen to had been Americans and it was at the time the American flag ship airline that was attack I do not see how we do not have the right to influence the behavior shown toward the person who murder our citizens.

A country that will not do it best to seek justice for it murder citizens is a fairly worthless country indeed.
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 05:47 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
Where is S-glass and her riveting description of your mentalist medium cat, I wonder


Sglass had a doctor's appointment this morning and so is gallavanting all over the city of Hilo as I type. Should be back up here on the edge of the volcano in a couple of hours. I'll tell her you asked. (Cat's asleep, btw, a very natural state of affairs for him.)
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 05:49 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

So, do you advocate letting every murder with a fatal disease out of prison, no matter how horrible or numerous the murders he committed? I certainly do not. There simply have to be some acts s0 cruel and evil that they merit a severe government punishment.

I don't advocate for or against it. If some country wants to let someone out with a few weeks to live, I don't have a lot of heartburn about it. If you don't want to, I don't have a lot of heartburn with that either. This guy is about to have his final sentence executed. No lack or act of compassion on my part changes that.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 05:52 pm

insignificant
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 06:09 pm
You know the logic that we do not have a right to do our best to protect our citizens or failing that seek justice for our people is beyond being stupid.

There been a number of cases in the news where Americans had been imprison or threaten with death for behaviors that under our laws would not even be a crime and I can not see why in such cases we do not have a moral right to used our position in the world to get our people home in one piece if possible.

A death sentence for changing your religion faith is law, in not a few countries, so we should just walk away from an American citizen who is facing a death sentence for such a crime, as we have no right to interfere with another country legal system?

A child of an American citizen is being held by the step father after the mother death in a foreign country and we have no right to used our power to try to reunited that father with that child? A foreign father had taken an American child to his home country against our laws and we do not have a right to do our best to reunite the mother with her child?

A American woman married a gentleman living in a country where the wife does not have any real standing and can not even leave the foreign country to return home without his permission under their laws and once more we do not have a right to do our best to allow the lady to return home?

And on and on and on.


Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2009 01:51 am
@BillRM,
You really should force other countries to use US-law, just and only US-law.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2009 02:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:
You really should force other countries to use US-law, just and only US-law.


I believe at the moment our lawmakers are studying the CIA Operations Manual, to see what lessone we can take from it to improve ourselves.
0 Replies
 
 

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