Gently chastising other people's kids, or the home field disadvantage

@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

Still going for whether you're comfortable reprimanding someone else's, and if so what the stakes would need to be. (What if sozlet had won both fish, given one to K, and then K had been the one to ask for sozlet's prettier fish?)

I've reprimanded other people's kids. Not in a harsh, "You're a bad kid", way but in a way that got my point across. Case in point... I had a van load of 14 year old girls that I was driving to the mall. One girl in the back was talking about this girl and that girl (none of whom were in the car) and saying what she didn't like about this one and that one. Some of the other kids were agreeing with her assessment, others were agreeing by their silence. I stayed out of it until she said, "I can't stand her! All she does is talk about everyone behind their backs." Some of the kids agreed with her. I couldn't help myself and said, "Not that anyone in this car is doing the same thing, of course.", with heavy sarcasm. There was some nervous giggling and M quickly turned the discussion to which stores they were going to visit once they got to the mall.

As to the example about the two fish being handed out differently, I'd have to wait to see how sozlet handled the request and how the interaction went from there. I think kids can pretty much handle this stuff themselves. If sozlet ended up giving the girl the fish and then complained to me afterward at home for being bilked out of her fish, I'd have to quote a variation of an Eleanor Roosevelt line --- No one can take advantage of you without your permission. If she felt taken advantage of this time, she'll use the memory to stand up for herself a little more firmly next time.

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@JPB,

Quote:

As to the example about the two fish being handed out differently, I'd have to wait to see how sozlet handled the request and how the interaction went from there. I think kids can pretty much handle this stuff themselves. If sozlet ended up giving the girl the fish and then complained to me afterward at home for being bilked out of her fish, I'd have to quote a variation of an Eleanor Roosevelt line --- No one can take advantage of you without your permission. If she felt taken advantage of this time, she'll use the memory to stand up for herself a little more firmly next time.

for older kids this is the way to go. However here you are expecting fairly young kids to fix a situation that the adults (mom and game attendant) messed-up. They can, they halfway did here, but it was not right to put the kids into that situation.

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@hawkeye10,

poppy cock. No one was at risk of injury. No one was breaking a law. No one was put into a situation other than there were two fish and two kids and a bit of discussion over which kid got which fish. Robert mentioned not believing in Karma, but if there is such a thing then sozlet got a point or two, in my estimation. She has nothing to feel bad about in her own actions, and she didn't feel bad about them anyway -- it was soz who thought that maybe sozlet was getting the short end of the stick. Maybe sozlet is the kind of kid who will rescue a slightly sick puppy over a rambunctious one. Maybe sozlet is the kind of kid who thinks, "You get what you get" is a perfectly reasonable way to go through life. Two thumbs up for her if she is!

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I just found this very interesting thread... I am surprised that (as far as I can tell from reading quickly through the posts so far) no one has touched on an important general issue-- how do people in general resolve conflicts in a relationship.

As an adult, I would probably chose to let a minor slight go by (depending on how important the relationship was to me). If the relationship wasn't that important, I might just make a note to not win fish with that person again.

But if there was an important friendship-- and the issue mattered to me (I am speaking as an adult); I would bring it up in terms of how I felt. I would mention that I felt slighted and then reiterate that I value the friendship. This would give the other person the chance to think about the issue and to understand why I was upset... but it would not be an attack or risk damaging the relationship and it would give me a chance to hear the other perspective.

It seems that Sozlet had two options; drop it, or discuss it... I don't think it is the role of parent to intervene in the relationships of kids (since we don't know most of what goes on anyway). Our kids are going to be in all kinds of social conflicts they will have to learn to sort out on their own. Our role is only to guide, teach and support.

Moving on was a perfectly good solution. It seems like Sozobe (and Sozlet) handled it just fine.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

Let me also make a point that the usual A2K members are not around to make yet:
This case only goes to demonstrate what happens when law-abiding citizens like Sozlet
sacrifice their Second Amendment rights and attend such a festival unarmed.

Thank u, Thomas

David

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

I haven't quite figured this one out, would appreciate some input.

We have a general but informal rule here, which is that to err on the side of being courteous to the guest. Usually things should stay roughly equal, but when that's impossible, the guest is deferred to.

Yesterday I took sozlet and her friend K to a festival thingie. Sozlet tried to win a fish by tossing a ping-pong ball into small glass bowls -- you know what I mean? Well, she won! First time ever, she's tried to do that a lot. She was so excited.

Friend was sad because she really wanted a fish but she kept trying and losing. This went on for a while. Then sozlet tried again and won again!!! Two fish in one night. She immediately announced that the second fish was for K. Awww...

We had a choice of leaving the fish there and picking them up later, or taking them right away. We chose later, and when we went to pick them up, K was handed a fish first. Both girls admired it, very pretty. Then sozlet got hers. Hmm. Not as pretty. Sozlet asked K if she could have the prettier one. K said no. Sozlet accepted that and tried to find the good points in her less-pretty fish.

I felt like if sozlet won both fish and was nice enough to give one to K, she should have the pick of which one to keep! But I just wasn't comfortable chastising/ interfering.

Sozlet's now happy with her less-pretty fish (I pointed out that it looks like it has a mohawk, which she liked), so that's moot. But it's something that comes up kind of a lot in this kind of minor situation. I'll go ahead and step in if something is dangerous or otherwise serious, but let these little inequities go.

What do you do in these situations?

I was witness to something a little bit like this a few years ago.
Someone had thrown coins around in the grass (dimes and up)
to children gathered around. One boy around maybe 11 got a Morgan silver dollar, among other coins.
A girl around maybe age 7 got a $10 gold piece, among other coins. Both coins were from the 1800s.
She traded her $10 gold piece for his silver dollar.
I saw it happen and was rather taken aback,
but I remained aloof.

David

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@JPB,

Quote:

Maybe sozlet is the kind of kid who will rescue a slightly sick puppy over a rambunctious one. Maybe sozlet is the kind of kid who thinks, "You get what you get" is a perfectly reasonable way to go through life. Two thumbs up for her if she is!

Let's hope not, as that is generally the flag of low self-esteem, which usually causes major problems in women and girls at some point. I certainly would have been alarmed if either of my two girls acted like that, as they have been raised to demand what it rightfully theirs.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Sounds a lot like the Dutch buying Manhattan for a bucket of shiny beads. Sometimes perceived value is more important.

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"they have been raised to demand what it rightfully theirs."

this may be what is wrong with America today...

entitlement.

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@Rockhead,

Quote:

this may be what is wrong with America today...

entitlement

Bullshit, it is the expectation that justice will prevail.

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@sozobe,

Minimally, in these circumstances, she shoud have flipped a coin
for the most colorful fish. Another way to look at it
is that since she is giving away her property,
she is entitled to decide what to give and what to keep.

David

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@hawkeye10,

OFFS!

While I've no doubt that your girls were raised to be aggressive and demanding, aggressiveness and a good sense of self do not have to go hand-in-hand. The line between assertiveness and aggressiveness can sometimes seem blurry but there's nothing that says someone with empathy and compassion can't also be assertive and have a strong positive sense of themselves.

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@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

"they have been raised to demand what it rightfully theirs."

this may be what is wrong with America today...

entitlement.

Does that mean
that its OK for your neighbors to take whatever thay want of yours
because u r not entitled to it ?

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@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

"they have been raised to demand what it rightfully theirs."

this may be what is wrong with America today...

entitlement.

dadpad commented on the result of this earlier

http://able2know.org/topic/133668-2#post-3690299

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@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

Sounds a lot like the Dutch buying Manhattan for a bucket of shiny beads.
Sometimes perceived value is more important.

Yes; I suspect that the size of the silver coin
motivated the girl to trade her smaller gold piece for it.

On that point (i.e., perceived value)
the guy who threw the coins took pity on one little boy
who was distraught, in tears, because he lost his coins.

Having no more coins, he gave him a $20 bill to calm him down.
It almost worked; except for a little wimpering.
A few more dollars rehabilitated his good humor.

It later turned out (his father revealed) that he was not able to read the numbers
on the $20 bill, thus coud not distinguish it from the singles;
i.e., the $20 had no greater perceived value than the singles.

David

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To answer Soz's questions:

1. I feel perfectly free to reprimand others' children for anything that really bothers me when they are in my home. (A lot of stuff doesn't really bother me, though. And I usually keep my distance. The kids can come get me if they need me.) If we're somewhere else, and I'm the adult in charge, same thing. But if their own parents are there, of course I defer. Depending on our friendship, I may say something to the parent if I think they didn't see or hear their child doing something that is clearly wrong. Some of our friends are sensitive about this sort of thing, others aren't. We've noticed that a lot of parents have loosened up since their kids became teenagers.

2. "What if sozlet had won both fish, given one to K, and then K had been the one to ask for sozlet's prettier fish?" Well, that would have been rude and ungrateful on K's part, and I'm pretty sure Sozlet would've said, "No." Neither of these girls seems to have a problem with expressing what they want.

Stupid question here, but I've been dying to ask: Why didn't Soz or Sozlet ask the man for a different fish if they didn't like it?

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General thought after reading several posts -- one thing I think I took for granted that I should probably appreciate more is that both sozlet and K are very straightforward kids. That's part of their bond (they've been best friends since kindergarten) -- they get impatient with a certain type of female game-playing, and appreciate that they can relax with each other and communicate clearly.

So when sozlet asked K if she wanted to switch, she knew she'd get an honest answer. If K didn't mind switching or agreed that it was more equitable for sozlet to choose, she'd switch. If she didn't want to switch, she wouldn't.

And K knew that sozlet would accept her answer either way, so the question didn't make her anxious.

Both of which happened (K didn't want to switch and said so, sozlet accepted that; they had a great time at the festival, much hugging at the end when I dropped off K, and they remain best friends).

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@Eva,

Eva wrote:

Quote:

To answer Soz's questions:

1. I feel perfectly free to reprimand others' children for anything
that really bothers me when they are in my home.

Presumably, that applies to ANY person of any age, in your home. Right ?

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I'm just wondering how it all would have gone down if the mohawk fish had come out first and both girls admired it. I'll bet both girls would have wanted the mohawk fish.

I don't think either kid was right or wrong; I think they were just being kids. I think I would have said "Sozlet won both fish so she should get to decide which one she wants. That sounds fair, doesn't it? Sozlet, do you want the super cool mohawk fish or the other fish?"

Personally, I don't have a problem chastising kids when they act like idiots. I'd rather call them on their knuckleheadedness that have a "word" with their parents.

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@Eva,

Good question actually! It was really busy, mostly. The fish were swimming around free in a cooler or something, and the harried woman running the thing scooped them up and put them in plastic bags, which was a bit of a project. It wasn't a simple swap situation, where they were already in fishbowls or something.

(Meanwhile, sozlet does like Savannah [the fish] quite a bit now.)

1 Reply

Gently chastising other people's kids, or the home field disadvantage

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