Now you are on my ignore list!

Well, Mc Carthy was obsessive extraordinare while being nuts, but Stalin was multiply viurulent. I don't conflate them, no fan of either.

Since those times, when the files of the communist secret police were opened n revealed,
we found that our counterespionage efforts were not successful enuf, to say nothing
of the additional commie spies who were convicted after trial.
The American military, the FBI, the CIA etc. were penetrated by Red spies.

I cannot comment upon your father 's experience, for lack of information
(I have previously commented upon the FBI 's having found a flag bearing a swastika
during the Second World War, in my German Uncle 's underwear drawer)
but for us to have done nothing to defend ourselves from commie subversion
woud have been insanely self destructive -- hurling our freedom in the garbage.
Self defense must be taken very, very seriously in the presence of a threat.
Failure to do so is next to suicidal.
The 3rd World War was a war of communist world domination.
In war, u need to know who is on the other side and what thay r doing behind your back;
either that or passively wait until thay r prepared to demonstrate that to u at a time of their choice,
like a commie version of 9/11.

To me, to my mind,
freedom is worth more than life itself.
Life under communist slavery and communist terror is hell.
During those years, I had the opportunity to discuss it with some refugees from that hell.

Many Americans took that danger lightly, to an irresponsible degree.





David

What a HORRIBLE insult to Senator McCarthy.
U shoud be ashamed of yourself.

He was trying to protect u and all of us from Stalinism coming here.

U owe him a debt of gratitude.

SHAME on u.





David

My father didn't take anything about freedom lightly, and was chased by Hoover and minions, at least for a bit, sort of like tossing a mouse in the air.. David, I consider you a poster boy for unthinkers. Don't consider lecturing me about the United States and freedom.

Do not consider lecturing her about the US and Freedom, David. She knows much more about it than you do. She said so. But I accept your posts with pleasure and anticipation.

Let's see how the logic holds up---
Hoover was a Republican

Hoover was an evil person

Ergo, all Republicans are evil persons.

David--I looked at my old Logic textbook but I can't seem to find the correct term which shows the illogic of such thinking. Do you know what it is?

The reason the senile Setanta wrote:

False analogy, Pan--people like the Possum and GunSickDavid are just internet trolls, who cannot affect your life unless you let it happen. McCarthy ruined the careers and lives of many, many people--ditto that little **** Nixon and HUAC.

is that he is afraid to debate with me. Anyone who goes to read the pitiful defense he made which tried to show that the Nazis were not Socialists,,after which I rubbed his nose in it, will see why he is afraid of me.

For those who did not read that exchange the senile ex-professor, Setanta thundered that the Nazis were not left wingers. I reminded the senile Setanta that only left wingers opposed the Catholic Church in Germany--Right wingers did not. I also made a list of the left wing policies--not right wing, but left wing policies that Hitler and his minions put into place. The senile Setanta could not rebut my evidence so he is afraid of me.

Yes, actually, as the countersubversion efforts were a mess,

I don't say that legalistically, that's not my interest. They were a mess of paranoia..

And you are a whisper of that, even a wannabee whisper.

This is why Setanta fears me--Because I took off his head--


Setanta wrote:

. Mr. Roosevelt took office in 1933, before Hitler came to power, and when the exact nature of the activities of Stalin and the Bolsheviks in the Soviet Union were as yet unknown.
***************************************************************
That is incorrect. 1929( before FDR) Stalin began a new wave of terror sending thousands to the Gulags. But FDR's braintrust were fellow travelers. Most of them were strong left wingers. One, to become Illinois Senator was an exception.

Paul Douglas had seen the Soviets at work. A group of Soviet bank clerks were tried at four o"clock in the afternoon and executed at six.

And, who were the individuals who endorsed the Soviet miracle?

Geroge Counts--a disciple of John Dewey( enough said)

Robert Dunn- from the ACLU

Roger Baldwin!!!!! the founder of the ACLU

Lincoln Steffens--So far left he was off the charts.


Not only was Roosevelt not informed about the Soviet Union, he was led by the fellow travelers to view it as almost benevolent.

Setanta wrote:

-Henry Ford was willing to work with them, as well as Armand Hammer. There was a vague theory of industrial production known as Fordism. I say vague because even Ford himself was full of contradictions. He was willing to hire armed goons to deal with sit-in strikers, and to hire scabs to break strikes. At the same time, his was the idea to make affordable automobiles that his factory workers could afford, and to pave vast parking lots next to his plants. His was a paternalistic attitude reminiscent of that of the owners of big mills in the New England and "old" England in the 19th century--opposed to organized labor but fancying themselves as the stern fathers of vast families of wayward children (rather than grown men and women entitled to have their own opinions on what constituted a living wage and decent working conditions).
************************************************************




I don't know where Setanta got the idea that Ford was willing to work with the Soviets. But his writings EVEN BEFORE HITLER, show that he was anti-Soviet.

Note:

prior to Hitler, Ford made the stereotypical amalgam between the Jews, the Russian Revolution and the labor movement. In the Independent, the Soviet Union was referred to as “the present Jewish government of Russia.”[12]

“There are more Communists in the United States than there are in Soviet Russia. Their aim is the same and their racial character is the same.... The power house of Communist influence and propaganda in the United States is in the Jewish trade unions which, almost without exception, adhere to a Bolshevik program for the respective industries and for the country as a whole” stated the Protocols, the Dearborn Independent and The International Jew.
***************************************************************

Perhaps Setanta needs t0 reread his History. As a matter of fact, Setanta has made many quite avoidable errors in the past. This is why he fears me. He knows I will check on his alleged facts and show were he is mistaken.

Panzade--Setanta wrote:

I don't, of course, read the Possum's posts--on those few occasions when i have, and have responded, i've always realized it's foolish and a waste of time, because all it wants is an opportunity to pick a fight, and it is never interested in the accuracy of it's statements.
********************************
You note, of course, Panzade, that there is no one on this thread named Possum.
Could it be that Setanta is doing an Ad Hominem. He piously asserts that he is not in favor or Ad Hominems but he indulges in them routinely.

If you are really interested, Panzade, you might want to go back to note the savage attacks on me by Setanta and others AFTER THEY DISCOVERED THAT THEY COULD NOT REBUT MY POSTS AND AFTER I SHOWED THEY WERE IN ERROR.

But, why should you do such work.

Setanta indicates that I am not interested in the accuracy of statements. Well, anyone who really wants to do so can see if my posts and my points do indeed REBUT Setanta over and over.

If he really thinks that I cherry pick my points, Panzade, why it is easy for a professor (ex?) like Setanta, who has won plaudits throughout the world for his incisive commentary on Historical events, could easily show where I was wrong.

The fact is, Panzade, that I rubbed Setanta's nose in it with my exposition, where I gave evidence that Setanta did not, indeed, could not, rebut, to the effect that the NAZIS were, in many respects, left wingers, not right wingers, in their policies and proposals.

One point serves to show how Setanta was wrong. The Nazis( which I proved in my posts giving direct evidence and quotes were strongly opposed to Christianity and Roman Catholics in Germany. Only someone who either knows nothing about the period or about the Catholic Church can call the Nazis "right-wing" in that respect.

The left, Stalin, especially, opposed the Church. The Catholic Church in the twentieth century must be viewed as a conservative right wing force.

And the Nazis were against the Catholic Church.

These, and scores of other points, Panzade, are points which Setanta dare not address since it will show that his old notes( cribbed from Howard Zinn's books?) are mainly erroneous.

Setanta, Panzade, is just an intellectual coward!

Setanta wrote:

There is absolutely no basis of which i know to claim that Mr. Roosevelt believed in political totalitarianism. And that covers the core principles of the NSDAP's 25 points.
end of quote
But as Roosevelt himself said( according to Harold Ickes( his interior secretary and one of his most important advisors) 'What we were doing in this country were some of the things...that were being done under Hitler in Germany. But we were doing them in an orderly way"

The German Press was especially lavish in its praise fo FDR. In 1934 "The Volkischer Beobachter"-THE NAZI PARTY'S OFFICIAL NEWPAPER, wrote that Roosevelt, through his New Deal, had eliminated "the uninhibited frenzy of market speculation" of the previous decade by adopting 'NATIONAL SOCIALIST STRAINS OF THOUGHT IN HIS ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL POLICIES"

Setanta wrote:

Anyone familiar with the history of socialism will known that nationalism and ethnocentrism are anathema to socialist and Marxist principles--and this is one of the reasons that Okie is so deluded.

end of quote

Setanta is in error.

The Nazis campaigned as Socialists. They were also nationalists which in the context of the 1930's was considered a "rightist" position BUT THIS WAS AT A TIME WHEN THE 'INTERNATIONALISM' OF THE SOVIET UNION DEFINED ALL, ALL, ALL, NATIONALISTS AS RIGHT WING.

Nationalism isn't necessarily all right wing.

Was Stalin right wing?
WAs Arafat right wing?
Was PolPot right wing?
Was Castro rigth wing?

Unless we are prepared to call these people right wing, we can see that nationalism is not all right wing.

Stalin himself dubbed himself a NATIONALIST!

The French Revolution was a nationalist revolution but it was also seen as a left liberal one FOR BREAKING WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

And, even if the Nazi Nationalism was in some ill=defined but fundamental way right wing, this only meant that Nazism was RIGHT WING SOCIALISM.

AND RIGHT WING SOCIALISTS ARE STILL SOCIALISTS.

I've got several people on my ignore list, but I've never announced it.

Since the senile ex-professor is ashamed of the fact that I showed that he didn't know what he is talking about, he reverts to name calling and ad hominem. When we first started debating, he would indeed respond. However, he is afraid of being shown as an old senile fraud.

But, isn't "an old senile fraud" an Ad Hominem? It certainly is but I can show evidence that Setanta began the name calling and the Ad Hominem when he saw that he was outclassed.

I've NEVER seen Set outclassed in a debate, so I can't imagine you could manage it!

I don't think you could have seen set outclassed in a debate since Set and I have never met. What you mean, of course, is that you have never read a debate in which Set was outclassed.

I am very much afraid that while I must defend your right to your opinion, I must come to the conclusion that you neither know how to read or how to think.

ya know, if you were not such a nice asshole, everyone would already have you on ignore...

just a thought, cowboy.

You got that right.


Hey...nice signature line

ima go one better.

it's late, i will hurt tomorrow anyway

why don't you and I chat, genoves....

you always want an audience, and I have 30 minutes to jack you up.

let's discuss ignore, and why you belong there.

it's almost 2 am and we are just about alone, no?




(I have no degrees, let's consider that me spotting you a rook)

hello?