17
   

Proved I'm not a Hypocrite Today...

 
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 06:04 pm
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

I'm being told to batter myself.


Jesus Murphy. You're just a wee bit over-dramatic here.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 06:21 pm
@Diest TKO,
Quote:

I'm just hurt. It sucks being hurt and then having to feel stupid on top of that


You are not stupid, you are however unwilling to accept reality. What works with women is not what you think SHOULD work with women, and you can't get past that.

This is a self correcting problem, pain over time will teach you.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 06:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
<rolls eyes> Talk about a guy to avoid in a booth.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 09:47 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Talk about a guy to avoid in a booth.


Great, but talk to any 10 middle aged guys, those of an age to have been around the block a few times, and I bet 7 of them will affirm that in their opinion nice guys uniformly finish last with women. What women say they want is very often not what they want. The smart guys figure out what their woman (or potential woman) wants, and gives it to them.

You may find this creepy and not like it, but we are the ones who get the best girls. I would rather get the girl than conform to your (and I suspect our OP's) morality.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 11:05 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'm not looking for some quick lay. I'm not looking to manipulate a person either.

I can deal with coming in last, I cannot deal with cheating in the race. Call that my morality if you must.

hawkeye10 wrote:
You may find this creepy and not like it...

You seriously creep me out. yeah. I don't like it.
hawkeye10 wrote:
...we are the ones who get the best girls.

I think some of the "best girls" could argue otherwise.
hawkeye10 wrote:
I would rather get the girl than conform to your (and I suspect our OP's) morality.

I guess I value the means more than the end.

Go back to your creepy ice cream truck.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 11:14 pm
@ehBeth,
Sorry ehBeth, perhaps I read too much into this. But it felt like a direct insult and a slap to my face.
Quote:
This whole sensitive new-age guy thing just isn't any better than it was 25 years ago. Feh

I'm a sensitive guy, and I felt pretty belittled by the idea that I am for any trendy reason.

The skinny on this all is that not much happened. I liked a girl. On evening's circumstances brought us to kiss and flirt and carry on. In that environment, I felt it was safe to share how I felt. My feelings we not returned. I don't fault her. I'm just hurt.

Perhaps commentary on new-aged-male-sensitivity can be reserved for a thread where someone's embarrassment isn't attached. It seems unnecessary here.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 11:22 pm
can't sleep, just looking over some threads.

thinking...if diest thinks we're telling him he's stupid, we're also telling ourselves the same thing. From what I can see, pretty much everyone as said they've been in the same boat.

Angst is a non-directional emotion. (that came from wikipedia)

I suppose it follows if one feels angst, they also look for someone to pin it on, when all you need to do is look in the mirror.

diest, I get the impression sometimes you resent the fact that people older than yourself disclose pieces of themselves, in an effort to show understanding, give advice (that is being asked for).

Personally, whenever I address you, I feel old and dowdy. Like I have to watch what I say so as not to crush your tenuous joie de vivre.
Strange, because inside I'm young and vibrant, and get more so every year. That certainly doesn't preclude some cynicism, which isn't a bad thing. Neither is resiliency, which I have in spades, and might be something for you to work on.



Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 11:34 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
diest, I get the impression sometimes you resent the fact that people older than yourself disclose pieces of themselves, in an effort to show understanding, give advice (that is being asked for).

HAHAHA. How could I not? I'm 26. I'm in the age bracket where I benefit not from being young nor having experience. HAHAHA. (I joke about this all the time BTW)

I didn't actually ask for any advice. I just chose this place to share what I went through.

T
K
O
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 11:44 pm
@Diest TKO,
so?

you shared. did you just want people to read it and not say anything?

So, we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

Should I be sensitive about your "HA HA HA's"?

What, is it acceptable for you to laugh at the experience that others have, and are willing to share, in hopes that you'll realize your situation is not unique, is in fact as old as mankind?

It certainly doesn't feel like you are joking when you say such things.

What did you imagine people were going to say about your experience? What did you want people to say?

Yeah, the girl was wrong?

She needs to feel just as uncomfortable as you do? (what, as some kind of punishment for hurting your feelings?)

The world doesn't work according to what you want.
Nor does it work according to what I want.

It just spins and spins.

Just enjoy the ride diest, life's to short to rent space in your head to someone that doesn't even realize you're bothered by this.

Now, I'm tired.
G'night diest....wear the world like a loose garment.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 12:00 am
@chai2,
Point taken.

I only laugh, cause you hit my personality so square on the head. I resent being infantalized by others because I'm younger. I get that it's true: Many people have more experience than me, but I respond much better to even ground statements. This is true or that is true, not because I'm older or more experienced, but because rationally A, B, C ergo D. I don't simply trust what other say, I want it proven. That's just how I am. I mean otherwise, I know myself and I can always imagine a way my experience is different than others. I need that A, B, C to get to D. I might experience it as C, A, B. Can you dig it?

I shared it here, and expected that others would give advice regardless of me asking for it. Nobody is damned, nor did I desire people to put down the girl. If it wasn't painfully clear in my first post, I'm quite fond of her.

I went to a music show tonight. It was a good time. Certainly better than staying in my apartment. It helped me get out of a little funk. I have some nice things planned in the coming days, that should help too.

T
K
O
genoves
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 01:33 am
Diest TKO wrote:

The skinny on this all is that not much happened. I liked a girl. On evening's circumstances brought us to kiss and flirt and carry on. In that environment, I felt it was safe to share how I felt. My feelings we not returned. I don't fault her. I'm just hurt.

*******************************************************************

As the main character, magnificently played by William Holden said to the character called "the animal" who pleaded for advice for success with women( In the great movie--Stalag 17)---GET YOURSELF A NEW FACE!
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 05:06 am
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

rationally A, B, C ergo D. I don't simply trust what other say, I want it proven. That's just how I am. I mean otherwise, I know myself and I can always imagine a way my experience is different than others. I need that A, B, C to get to D. I might experience it as C, A, B. Can you dig it?


I see.

You are "more unique" than everyone else.
Neutral

I don't simply trust what others say....but there's times when nothing can be proven. Affairs of the heart are not a ABCD thing.

You said before something like "I wish I could care less", as if there's some sort of device in our head that can turn down emotions, or that there are 2 groups of people, those that care, and those that don't.

Don't you realize someone can care very much, but not let that caring get in the way of happiness to be gained overall?

Balance
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 05:20 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
Now, the sensitive new age guy thing. That is a reference to an ancient song (not quite as ancient as I'd thought, but ancient) by Christine Lavin. Apropos, but best listened to another day.


my fave lines from that song

"Who's concerned about your orgasm?
(silence)
Spoken: ...Hey, wait a minute, wait a minute, you guys said you were sensitive?
(Well, Christine...we're sensitive -- but we're not *that* sensitive!)"

chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 06:03 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

"Who's concerned about your orgasm?
(silence)



oh God, that is the best line ever.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 06:22 am
@chai2,
I'm really confused. I don't understand. How am I more unique? What are you getting at?

I'm just saying that I need rationale to understand things. I don't accept things that are just-trust-me-i've-been-there. My mind (like others I suspect) will try and make my experience unique when it isn't and reject that brand of advice. I'm very clearly saying I think I'm pretty normal/typical in this regard.

Quote:
I don't simply trust what others say....but there's times when nothing can be proven. Affairs of the heart are not a ABCD thing.

My fault for making this seem like some sort of equation. I'm not trying to predict anything, but in looking backwards to any event D, we usually can see A, B, and C that led to or contributed to it.

I'm not asking for things to be proven. I didn't ask anything at all. I just came here and shared my story. Forgive me for being defensive here, but I feel like I'm on trial. My crime being young and idealistic about love. I feel like the jurors are trying to hide their chuckles. Do not patronize me. Having a greater amount of experience in your life does not mean I should have my experiences (and my thoughts/feelings about them) mocked.

I'm embarrassed and hurt. I don't need to be told I was dumb too. Unless you think it was dumb for me to tell someone I like that I like them, think it is dumb for me to feel hurt, think it's dumb for me to feel embarrassed. I think I did the right thing, and sometimes the right thing doesn't always work. I'm okay with that. I was following my heart.

Quote:
Don't you realize someone can care very much, but not let that caring get in the way of happiness to be gained overall?

What are you talking about? I'm not damaged. I'm not trying to find motivation to get out of bed each day. I'm not so incapacitated by my caring that it has become a handicap. I'm just hurt, and disappointed. It's not as if I've quit trying to find things that make me happy. I've not cursed at the sky damning women or professing some rant about how I'll never find love. No. I went out last night with friends. I'm going again tonight. I'm telling jokes to my roommates. I am gaining happiness overall, and if I take a moment to pause and reflect on something that I am hurt or embarrassed by, then so be it. It's not some critical character flaw in me that's going to stop me from pursuing some larger picture of happiness. Give me some credit and some respect. Geez.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 07:10 am
I suppose I was being too subtle for you.

There is no such thing as "more" unique, or "less" unique.

It's akin to saying "I'm unique, just like everyone else"

Didn't do more than quickly scan the rest of your post....to the extent that you've obviously created a world of clinical depression and despair into whatever one sentence I said.

Doesn't seem to matter what anyone says, you take exception and offense, so, have fun I guess.

It shouldn't have to be such hard work to communicate, so I'm going to stop trying.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 07:22 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

Didn't do more than quickly scan the rest of your post....to the extent that you've obviously created a world of clinical depression and despair into whatever one sentence I said.

I was being sarcastic.

chai2 wrote:

Doesn't seem to matter what anyone says, you take exception and offense, so, have fun I guess.

Not true.

chai2 wrote:

It shouldn't have to be such hard work to communicate, so I'm going to stop trying.

Help me here Chai. Help me figure out what I'm failing to communicate. I honestly wouldn't care, but the responses I've got from people I've talked to and the responses I've got here have been dramatically different. What am I failing to communicate?

Am I not accurately describing my mental state?
Am I being suggestive about something?
I don't understand why it's so different here than when I tell others in person. My friends first response's have been to the effect of: How do you feel? Here I feel like the message is that I'm doing or thinking about something wrong. Here I need to work on my "resiliency."

Help me understand this disconnect.

T
K
O
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 07:27 am
@Diest TKO,
I think it may be the title and the tone of your first post. It's a bit braggy, a bit superior. I believe that's not what you meant and wasn't what you were feeling, but it's a bit "admire me, I'm not a hypocrite, I have guts." That gets a reaction.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 07:42 am
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

I think it may be the title and the tone of your first post. It's a bit braggy, a bit superior. I believe that's not what you meant and wasn't what you were feeling, but it's a bit "admire me, I'm not a hypocrite, I have guts." That gets a reaction.

I can assure you. I have zero desire to brag about this. I thought it was a perfect irony, to juxtapose with my feelings. I.e. - People normally feel good about that kind of thing, but I didn't really feel good at all.

The title came from something one of my friends said about me not being a hypocrite based on the same premise of me telling others to take chances.

I guess I never thought that would offend or yield such a negative reaction.

T
K
O
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2009 04:27 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

djjd62 wrote:

"Who's concerned about your orgasm?
(silence)



oh God, that is the best line ever.


isn't it though

(I grok the line about hyphenated names as well)
 

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