57
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 09:53 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
U.S. Preference for Stricter Gun Laws Highest Since 1993
by Jeffrey M. Jones, MARCH 14, 2018, Gallup

Kind of a vague polling question. "Stricter gun laws" can mean many things.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 11:59 am
@oralloy,
and the country supports them. Duh.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 11:59 am
@oralloy,
What would be your answer to this poll question?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 12:04 pm
@Olivier5,
I find all possible answers to be misleading. There are some additional controls that I'd be able to live with. And some that I would fight to the death to oppose.

I'd probably say that I favor fewer restrictions, simply so that my response could not be misconstrued as support for something that I oppose.
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 01:01 pm
@oralloy,
So you among those 4% of Americans asking for less gun regulation. Okay.

4%... Hahaha... That's less than the usual margin of error for these polls.

It's like the percentage of people who would like to live in the north pole or be captured by ISIS.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 01:08 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
It's like the percentage of people who would like to live in the north pole or be captured by ISIS.


It is the same as the percent of gays, or whatever, in our population. Not enough to matter, right?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 01:11 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
So you among those 4% of Americans asking for less gun regulation. Okay.

Note that I said I'd pick that answer because it was the least-misleading choice available. There are some additional gun regulations that I could live with.

On the other hand, I am a very strong proponent of the SHARE Act, so there's that.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 01:37 pm
@oralloy,
The question is not whether you would "live with them" but whether you would support them.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 01:56 pm
@Olivier5,
The problems is, "them" isn't very well defined.

The SHARE Act (which I strongly support) does reduce gun restrictions, so I guess that it can be fairly said that I favor lightening restrictions.

In particular, the SHARE Act would:

a) remove federal restrictions on silencers,

b) remove federal restrictions on armor-piercing rifle ammo,

c) remove federal restrictions against the mass import of dirt-cheap AK-47s, and

d) remove federal restrictions on assault shotguns.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 08:25 pm
@oralloy,
since an AK 47 is a cheap full- auto, you re basically wishing to remove the Federal Firearms act of 1934 eh?

Do you have a reason that sounds logical to the non gun nut to disassemble the category of "Dangerous weapons"?

farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 08:28 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
It is the same as the percent of gays, or whatever, in our population. Not enough to matter, right?


Nother dose of obtuse speak that weve grown so accustomed to hearing from you.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 09:01 pm
@farmerman,
The AK-47s that would be imported would be semi-auto-only.

Owning one would be a lot like owning an AR-15 only it would cost $35 instead of $1000.

I expect that people who can afford an AR would continue to use that platform. But it would open up a whole new level of firepower to those who can only afford a $35 gun.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 09:19 pm
@oralloy,
takes about 11 minutes to convert em.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 09:23 pm
@farmerman,
If you have the parts. And if you have the know-how that is required to do it without ruining the gun.

Ten years in federal prison if the government catches you.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 09:48 pm
@oralloy,
theres only a few reasons to buy a pos as an ak, easy to go full auto.
1its real cheap
2it fires in the mud
3its very forgiving and can be rechambered with very simple tools

Howevere its still a POS thats where "3 shot spray and pray" came from originally.kinda like a modern brown bess with full auto.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 10:28 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
1its real cheap

I'm sure that anyone who could afford an AR would still get an AR.

People who can only afford a $35 gun deserve to be able to defend themselves effectively too.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 10:45 pm
I'll be away all day tomorrow doing something interesting. Barring my being crushed under a collapsing bridge or similar misfortune, I'll be back on-line sometime on Sunday.
sceletera
 
  3  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2018 07:14 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:


That's not how the Constitution works.

It doesn't matter if we can use other guns. It matters that you cannot justify the ban with a good reason.




You can keep repeating that all you want. I will rely on the full text of the Constitution and the courts that are tasked with interpreting it and whether laws as written are constitutional.

The simple fact is that the 1994 assault weapons ban was never ruled unconstitutional. Every attempt to argue the 1994 ban on assault weapons was unconstitutional was rejected by the courts.

Just last year the 4th circuit appeals court ruled that the second amendment does not prevent the banning of assault style weapons when they ruled a Maryland ban on assault weapons was Constitutional.
Quote:
Addressing the plaintiffs’ Second
Amendment claims under the Supreme Court’s decision in District
of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the district court
expressed grave doubt that the banned assault weapons and largecapacity
magazines are constitutionally protected arms.
Nevertheless, the court ultimately assumed that the FSA
implicates the Second Amendment and subjected it to the
“intermediate scrutiny” standard of review. In the wake of
Heller, four of our sister courts of appeals have also rejected
Second Amendment challenges to bans on assault weapons and
large-capacity magazines, including two (the Second and District
of Columbia Circuits) that utilized an analysis similar to the
district court’s.

http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/141945A.P.pdf

So we can see that 4 district courts have ruled that bans on assault style weapons are constitutional and the Supreme Court has refused to take any of this case on appeal letting the lower court ruling stand.

Quote:
We begin with the plaintiffs’ claims that the FSA’s assault
weapons ban and its prohibition against large-capacity magazines
contravene the Second Amendment. According to the plaintiffs,
they are entitled to summary judgment on the simple premise that
the banned assault weapons and large-capacity magazines are
protected by the Second Amendment and, thus, the FSA is
unconstitutional per se. We conclude, to the contrary, that the
banned assault weapons and large-capacity magazines are not
constitutionally protected arms.

sceletera
 
  3  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2018 07:16 am
@oralloy,
Quote:

You've openly stated that these court rulings are not being offered as backing for your arguments.

Where an when did I do that?



Note: oralloy will be unable to provide any evidence of me making such a claim. He has simply come up with what he thinks is a clever way to ignore court rulings that show his opinion to be wrong under the law.
sceletera
 
  4  
Reply Sat 17 Mar, 2018 07:23 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

sceletera wrote:
This appears to be a variant of an AR-15. As such it can be banned without violating the US Constitution.

That is incorrect. The lack of any good reason to ban it makes such a ban unconstitutional.



Your statement is nonsense. This is from the 4th circuit ruling.

Quote:
Simply put, AR-15-type rifles are “like” M16 rifles under any standard definition of that term. See, e.g., Webster’s New International Dictionary 1431 (2d ed. 1948) (defining “like” as “[h]aving the same, or nearly the same, appearance, qualities, or characteristics; similar”); The New Oxford American Dictionary 982 (2d ed. 2005) (defining “like” as “having the same characteristics or qualities as; similar to”). Although an M16 rifle is capable of fully automatic fire and the AR-15 is limited to semiautomatic fire, their rates of fire (two seconds and as little as five seconds, respectively, to empty a thirtyround magazine) are nearly identical. Moreover, in many situations, the semiautomatic fire of an AR-15 is more accurate and lethal than the automatic fire of an M16. Otherwise, the AR-15 shares the military features — the very qualities and characteristics — that make the M16 a devastating and lethal weapon of war. In any event, we need not rely solely on dictionary definitions, because Heller itself expounds on what it means to be “like” the M16. As the plaintiffs would have it, Heller drew a “bright line” between fully automatic and semiautomatic firearms, and thus the AR-15 cannot be considered “like” the M16 for purposes of the Second Amendment. That contention is baseless, however, because Heller did not restrict the meaning of “M-16 rifles and the like” to only fully automatic weapons. Rather, Heller described “M-16 rifles and the like” more broadly, specifically identifying them as being those “weapons that are most useful in military service.” Therefore, we identify the line that Heller drew as not being between fully 49 automatic and semiautomatic firearms, but between weapons that are most useful in military service and those that are not.11 Whatever their other potential uses — including selfdefense — the AR-15, other assault weapons, and large-capacity magazines prohibited by the FSA are unquestionably most useful in military service. That is, the banned assault weapons are designed to “kill[] or disabl[e] the enemy” on the battlefield. See J.A. 735. The very features that qualify a firearm as a banned assault weapon — such as flash suppressors, barrel shrouds, folding and telescoping stocks, pistol grips, grenade launchers, night sights, and the ability to accept bayonets and large-capacity magazines — “serve specific, combat-functional ends.” See id. at 1120. And, “[t]he net effect of these military combat features is a capability for lethality — more wounds, more serious, in more victims — far beyond that of other firearms in general, including other semiautomatic guns.” Id. at 1121-22.


Quote:
Because the banned assault weapons and large-capacity
magazines are clearly most useful in military service, we are
compelled by Heller to recognize that those weapons and
magazines are not constitutionally protected.
 

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