65
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
Region Philbis
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Jul, 2022 03:19 am

New York governor signs law limiting concealed carry of firearms in wake of ruling
(cnn)
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  3  
Reply Sat 2 Jul, 2022 04:27 am

https://iili.io/jIpcxa.jpg
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 2 Jul, 2022 04:26 pm
@Region Philbis,
The founding fathers didn't intend for me to be defenseless in my own home. And if they did, well then, they're full of shyt.
BillW
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Jul, 2022 04:58 pm
@Glennn,
America remained a frontier from 1492 to roughly 1880+. There were Native American engagements and hostile hombres with sheriffs and the Army many miles away. There was also the need to put meat on the table, often times obtained in the wilds.

I certainly do not wish to see our streets and rual areas turn into territory ruled by local gangs armed with M16s and AK47s! I already know what this looks like and it isn't pretty. These weapons and ammunition are not meant for hunting either. They tear meat to shreds, something that is meant to be done by slow cooking, not from the act of "shooting" the animals.

There are certain weapons, explosive devises and ammunition that must be controlled - and currently isn't.
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 2 Jul, 2022 05:08 pm
@BillW,
Quote:
I certainly do not wish to see our streets and rual areas turn into territory ruled by local gangs armed with M16s and AK47s!

Yeah, me neither.

There are no M-16s on the street. There are semiautomatic rifles that look like them, but they're not them. If there were a poll of police officers, I'll bet they're not as worried about AR-15s as people might be led to believe.

Are you okay with me having a handgun in my house?
BillW
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Jul, 2022 05:43 pm
@Glennn,
First of all, the officers would not go in in Uvalde because of the weapon that was being used. This was a.command decision, not each individual offocer. We know of a few officers that wanted to go in but no command to go was given.

The AR15 can be turned into a automatic by simple engineering of the selector device. The mechanics are already there - the gas exhaust that rejects the used cartridge.

The bullet is also what makes the weapon a real bad ass. It is barely bigger that .22, except it starts rolling after being fired. This turns it into a .45. The bullet is also made to disintegrate, widening its area of damage. And, it has a lot, lot more propulsive power. More pop for the bang.

You are wrong in thinking police aren't worried about long guns in an exchange (fire fight). A machine gun would take it to the next level! When they enter a situation - they want to know where the long guns are, especially military grade weapons.

I assume you are a "good" person. I have no problem with weapons in the hands of good guys. Since we can't control who gets the guns, I would prefer no civilians get automatic or semiautomatic military style long guns.

MontereyJack
 
  4  
Reply Sat 2 Jul, 2022 06:57 pm
@Glennn,
When you can fire a hundred shots in a minute and a half with an ar15, when an exremley we;;-practiced 18th sentury soldier could only fire two or three times in the same period with a flintlock musket. And when emergency room doctors say people hit with high-V Ar15 ammko look like a bomb went off inside them.they're so destoyed as to be unidentifiable, the difference between m16s and ar15s is not that great. that's what the most popular long gun amongst the gun loonies does. there's no place for that in an allegedlyy civilized society.
Glennn
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 2 Jul, 2022 10:19 pm
@BillW,
Quote:
First of all, the officers would not go in in Uvalde because of the weapon that was being used. This was a.command decision, not each individual offocer. We know of a few officers that wanted to go in but no command to go was given.

Hmm, I recall hearing something about a locked door and kids getting shot as those cops with guns did nothing.
Quote:
The AR15 can be turned into a automatic by simple engineering of the selector device. The mechanics are already there - the gas exhaust that rejects the used cartridge.

Sure. And how many times has it been reported that someone converted an AR-15 from semiautomatic to full auto before going on a rampage?
Quote:
The bullet is also what makes the weapon a real bad ass. It is barely bigger that .22, except it starts rolling after being fired. This turns it into a .45. The bullet is also made to disintegrate, widening its area of damage. And, it has a lot, lot more propulsive power. More pop for the bang.

Okay. But most mass shootings are done with handguns. The real question here is where you'll draw the line should the AR-15 be banned. Will you focus on the next most deadly weapon and advocate for its banning next?
Quote:
You are wrong in thinking police aren't worried about long guns in an exchange (fire fight). A machine gun would take it to the next level! When they enter a situation - they want to know where the long guns are, especially military grade weapons.

No. I said that the police are probably not worried about people owning AR-15s, not machine guns.

And to that point:

Over 15,000 police professionals were surveyed. Here is part of what the survey shows:

What effect do you think the passage of the White House’s currently proposed legislation would have in improving police officer safety?

86% of respondents say passage will have no impact or a negative impact on officer safety. One of four think additional gun-control measures will make their job more difficult and have a negative impact on their safety.

What effect do you think a federal ban on manufacture and sale of some semi-automatic firearms, termed by some as “assault weapons,” would have on reducing violent crime?

Almost 92% off officers think a ban on the manufacture and sale of “assault weapons” will have no effect – or a negative effect – on reducing violent crime.

Do you think a federal ban on manufacture and sale of ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds would reduce violent crime?

96% of respondents answered No.

https://radioviceonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/2013-law-enforcement-survey.pdf
Quote:
I assume you are a "good" person. I have no problem with weapons in the hands of good guys. Since we can't control who gets the guns, I would prefer no civilians get automatic or semiautomatic military style long guns.

Of course, you know that referring to a semiautomatic rifle as a military rifle by virtue of its "style" does not change the fact that it's not a military rifle. You're confusing style and function.
Glennn
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 2 Jul, 2022 10:23 pm
@MontereyJack,
Uh huh . . .

So, you're okay with shotguns and pistols? You're okay with those kinds of wounds? Of course you're not. So will it be handguns you go after next, or will it be shotguns? Or will you try to kill two birds with one stone and go after both?
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Jul, 2022 11:59 pm
@Glennn,
It's always been a big secret, but most us worship huge gun wounds.......don't tell the conservatives or any of the other rational thinkers, but we are loaded up with huge weapons and even more huge banana clips. Who knows, maybe our children will give birth to demented school shooters, and if they aren't 18, how will they get their weapons???
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2022 02:50 am
@Glennn,
https://www.9news.com.au/national/cueensland-police-assault-rifles/58fc55ab-69c7-4899-899d-0e2528d538f1
Quote:
Queensland police armed with 200 new military grade assault rifles

“We need to at least have equal or better to what is out there in the community,” Police Union President Ian Leavers said.

“This will assist police in protecting their own lives as well as those of the community.”

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/outgunned-police-need-a-rifle-in-every-squad-car-brisbane-cop-says-20180228-p4z279.html
Quote:
'Outgunned' police need a rifle in every squad car, Brisbane cop says

Queensland police should carry a rifle in every squad car, with every officer trained in how to use them, a senior officer has argued.


Police do worry about the type of weapons they come up against.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2022 07:48 am
@Glennn,
ar15s are by far the most purchased ong gun nd most used long gun in mass murders, so let's start with them. As scalia himself noted, no right is absolute, so getting guns regulated is perfectly feasible and constitutional.
Glennn
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2022 08:04 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
ar15s are by far the most purchased ong gun nd most used long gun in mass murders,

Why don't you provide the source for that statement?

So, you're okay with shotguns and pistols? You're okay with those kinds of wounds? Of course you're not. So will it be handguns you go after next, or will it be shotguns? Or will you try to kill two birds with one stone and go after both?
Glennn
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2022 08:06 am
@vikorr,
Um, I just provided you with a survey of police officers. They made themselves perfectly clear. Your links do nothing to negate the survey results.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2022 08:53 am
@Glennn,
I have absolutely no problem with banning or very heavily regulating phandguns and shotguns. Freedom-l,oving civilized societies around the world agree.. Simply because you align yourself with the gun loonies is nit a valid counter-argument.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  3  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2022 12:21 pm
@Glennn,
I realise. I'm pointing out that your survey was very, very obviously rigged. Any person who has to run towards a semi-auto wielding longarms person shooting at them, carrying nothing but a handgun would be worried because the odds just aren't slightly in favour of the rapid fire longarms - they are massively in favour. This is utterly obvious to anyone who has ever fired a handgun, let alone tried whilst moving even the slightest bit (which itself would be nothing like while walking or running). Add in an adrenalin dump and the odds for the officer deteriorate even further. You would basically need cover the entire approach and then you still have signficant disadvantages....no...nothing at all to be worried about.

These issues are rightly recognised by the two articles I posted.

And if you still think you're right - which would win, and by what numbers of a platoon of soliders with semiauto rifles vs a platoon with handguns?
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2022 02:53 pm
@vikorr,
Quote:
I'm pointing out that your survey was very, very obviously rigged.

I see . . .
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2022 03:18 pm
@Glennn,
No. You don't. that is precisely the problem.
Glennn
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2022 04:26 pm
@MontereyJack,
How was it rigged?
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 3 Jul, 2022 04:35 pm
@vikorr,
Quote:
I'm pointing out that your survey was very, very obviously rigged.

Of course it was! Look where it comes from:

https://www.police1.com/info/about/

They're obviously up to no good. Good thing you found them out.
 

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