57
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 08:52 am
@oralloy,
Precisely my point. Zim and the McMichaels are murderous thugs and self defense from them us not murder.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 08:53 am
@MontereyJack,
Wrong again. Mr. Zimmerman and Travis and Gregory McMichael engaged in self defense. And self defense is not murder.

There was no need to defend against them because they did not attack anyone.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 09:14 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
Which is still your opinion, and a flawed one at that,

That is incorrect. It is a fact.

Once you've walked up to a woman who doesn't know you, in a deserted area, threatened her, and tried to lure her pet away from her, the only possible way to end the menace that she feels is to go away and leave her alone.


vikorr wrote:
It is entirely realistic - he engaged in no threatening behaviour on the video and was very rational and calm - there was every chance for her to talk and clarify things.

Not after he threatened her and tried to lure her pet away in the middle of a remote area.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 09:14 am
@oralloy,
wrong on both counts. They instigated the confrontation and pulled the lethal weapons, which the innocent victims tried to protect themselves from. Zim and the McMs are in the murderous wrong.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 09:15 am
@MontereyJack,
That is incorrect. The evidence shows very clearly that Trayvon attacked Mr. Zimmerman and tried to murder him.

The jogger guy (how does anyone manage to remember how to spell his name) is on video charging at Travis McMichael before he opens fire.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 09:17 am
@oralloy,
strictly your malign opinion not fact and not supported by amy cooper either.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 09:18 am
@MontereyJack,
Wrong again. Threatening a woman who doesn't know you in the middle of a remote area and trying to lure her pet away will make her view you as a menacing threat.

She really should sue Franklin Templeton for wrongful termination. She could get a handsome bundle of cash from them.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 09:54 am
@oralloy,
The City of New York disagrees with you. Amy Cooper disagrees with you. Persist in looking the fool if you wish to and advocating gratuitous murder for no reason, It's on you. And her company is a private company. They have every right to fire her for making them look spectacularly racist by association with her. She'd lose a bundle for filing a frivolous lawsuit and being assessed court costs. You give awful legal advice too.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 09:55 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
The City of New York disagrees with you.

That's why in the future, people who feel menaced by a minority are likely to take matters into their own hands and not involve the police.


MontereyJack wrote:
Amy Cooper disagrees with you.

That you bully your victims into making false confessions does not make you right.


MontereyJack wrote:
Persist in looking the fool if you wish to

I do not agree that advocating justice looks foolish.


MontereyJack wrote:
and advocating gratuitous murder for no reason, It's on you.

Self defense is in no way murder. People have the right to be safe from dangerous thugs.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 10:01 am
@oralloy,
whatever you're going to ssy and haven't yet when I write this, you haven't a leg to stand on.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 10:02 am
@oralloy,
So once again you advocate vigilante murder. I was right.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 10:13 am
@MontereyJack,
Wrong again. Self defense is not murder.

You are not right. People have the right to protect themselves from dangerous thugs.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 10:14 am
@MontereyJack,
Wrong again. The facts back me up 100%.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 10:15 am
@oralloy,
Precisely what Trayvon and Ahmaud tried to do and were killed by the thugs for it.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 10:16 am
@oralloy,
No they do not.
Retired top general joins Mattis dissent from Trump, warns of 'beginning of the end' for democracy if troops are used against protests
Dylan Stableford 44 mins ago






Las Vegas casinos reopen to big crowds

Detained US Navy veteran freed by Iran, en route home

Retired top general joins Mattis dissent from Trump, warns of 'beginning of the end' for democracy if troops are used against protests





Retired Marine Gen. John Allen on Wednesday said President Trump’s threats to use the U.S. military on protesters “may well signal the beginning of the end of the American experiment.”

© Provided by Yahoo! News Retired Marine Corps Gen. John Allen and President Trump. (Allison Shelley/Getty Images, Tom Brennan/Reuters)
“The slide of the United States into illiberalism may well have begun on June 1, 2020,” Allen wrote in a scathing essay published online by Foreign Policy magazine. “Remember the date.”

Allen, the former commander of the NATO International Security Assistance Force and U.S. forces in Afghanistan, said Trump’s halting Rose Garden speech in which he declared himself the “president of law and order,” the use of tear gas on protesters outside the White House and the church photo op that followed Monday was a “stunning” moment and potentially a pivotal one.
“Donald Trump expressed only the barest of condolences at the murder of George Floyd, but he also said nothing about the fundamental and underlying reasons for the unrest: systemic racism and inequality, a historic absence of respect, and a denial of justice,” Allen wrote. “Yes, he mentioned George Floyd, but he did not touch on long-standing societal problems at all. He sees the crisis as a black problem — not as something to be addressed by creating the basis and impetus for a move toward social justice, but as an opportunity to use force to portray himself as a ‘law and order’ president.
“... Trump was clear he views those engaged in the unrest and criminal acts in these riots as terrorists, an enemy,” Allen continued. “He said so, ostensibly as justification to deploy the U.S. military to apply federal force — his ‘personal’ force — against the riots.
“... Donald Trump isn’t religious, has no need of religion, and doesn’t care about the devout, except insofar as they serve his political needs,” he added. “He failed to project any of the higher emotions or leadership desperately needed in every quarter of this nation during this dire moment.”

© Provided by Yahoo! News President Trump holds a Bible outside St. John’s Church across from the White House on Monday. (Patrick Semansky/AP)
Allen — who retired from the military in 2013 and is now president of the Brookings Institution — was particularly struck by the juxtaposition of Trump’s claim to be “an ally of peaceful protesters” and the removal of those peaceful protesters to clear the street in front of St. John’s Church.
“Fully equipped riot police and troops violently, and without provocation, set upon the peaceful demonstrators there, manhandling and beating many of them, employing flash-bangs, riot-control agents, and pepper spray throughout,” he wrote. “These demonstrators had done nothing to warrant such an attack. Media who were watching over the scene craned their cameras to try to understand what had happened to justify this violence, until it became clear for all to see. The riot police had waded into these nonviolent American citizens — who were protesting massive social injustice — with the sole purpose of clearing the area around St. John’s Episcopal Church, on the other side of the park, so the self-proclaimed 'ally of peaceful protesters,' Donald Trump, could pose there for a photo-op.”
Allen’s essay echoed a statement issued Wednesday by former Secretary of Defense James Mattis, who said he was “angry and appalled” at the White House’s response to the protests.
“When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution,” Mattis said in the statement. “Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens — much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.”
Mattis continued: “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people — does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership.”

© Provided by Yahoo! News Tear gas floats in the air as a line of police move demonstrators away from St. John's Church across Lafayette Park from the White House on Monday. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
Allen warned that Trump’s ongoing threats to send U.S. military troops into states whose governors do not sufficiently “dominate” the protests should be chilling to all Americans.
“There is no precedent in modern U.S. history for a president to wield federal troops in a state or municipality over the objections of the respective governor,” Allen wrote. “Right now, the last thing the country needs — and, frankly, the U.S. military needs — is the appearance of U.S. soldiers carrying out the president’s intent by descending on American citizens. This could wreck the high regard Americans have for their military, and much more.”
In fact, there is such a precedent, as Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., pointed out in a controversial op-ed in the New York Times on Wednesday: the dispatch of federal troops to southern states, including Arkansas, to enforce desegregation orders. “Gov. Orval Faubus, a racist Democrat, mobilized our National Guard in 1957 to obstruct desegregation at Little Rock Central High School. President Eisenhower federalized the Guard and called in the 101st Airborne in response. The failure to do so, he said, ‘would be tantamount to acquiescence in anarchy,’” Cotton wrote.
The difference, of course, is that Faubus and other Southern governors were refusing to enforce the law and the Constitution, as ordered by the federal courts. In the present situation, state authorities are seeking to enforce the peace, and reserving for themselves the right, as the law and Constitution provide, to decide if they need help from the U.S. military.
Allen concluded his essay with a warning, and call to action.
“At nearly the same moment that Americans were being beaten near the White House on behalf of their president, George Floyd’s brother Terrence Floyd visited the site of George’s murder,” Allen wrote. “Overcome with grief and anger, he loudly upbraided the crowd for tarnishing his brother’s memory with violence and looting. And then he told Americans what to do: vote. ‘Educate yourselves,’ he said, ‘there’s a lot of us.’ So, while June 1 could easily be confused with a day of shame and peril if we listen to Donald Trump, if instead we listen to Terrence Floyd, it is a day of hope.”
Read more from Yahoo News:
Gen. Mattis says he’s 'angry and appalled' at Trump's response to protests
Trump plan to deploy troops in cities shocks generals and alarms Democrats in Congress
Religious leaders condemn teargassing protesters to clear street for Trump
Obama to George Floyd protesters: Channel 'justifiable' anger into action
Yahoo News Poll: Most Americans say Trump is a ‘racist’ and want him to stop tweeting
Continue Reading
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 10:17 am
@MontereyJack,
Wrong again. You cannot point out anything untrue in my posts. The facts back me up 100%.

Self defense is in no way murder. People have the right to be safe from dangerous thugs.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 10:21 am
@oralloy,
GIGO.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 10:23 am
@MontereyJack,
Your dislike of facts does not make them untrue.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 10:25 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Precisely what Trayvon and Ahmaud tried to do and were killed by the thugs for it.

Wrong again. Trayvon tried to murder the captain of the neighborhood watch.

The jogger guy tried to murder citizens who were confronting him about a suspected burglary.

They were both killed in self defense. If you don't want people to defend themselves from you, don't attack them.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Jun, 2020 10:27 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Ahmaud Arbery was hit with a truck before he died, and his killer allegedly used a racial slur, investigator testifies

By Eliott C. McLaughlin, CNN

Updated 9:51 AM ET, Thu June 4, 2020











Now Playing
Man who recorded fatal...
Source: CNN
Man who recorded fatal Ahmaud Arbery shooting arrested 03:19
(CNN)William Bryan told investigators he heard Travis McMichael use a racial epithet after fatally shooting Ahmaud Arbery in Glynn County, Georgia, a Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent testified Thursday during preliminary hearings.
Bryan told police McMichael said "f***ing n***er" after three blasts from McMichael's shotgun left Arbery dead in February the streets of the Satilla Shores neighborhood, Assistant Special Agent in Charge Richard Dial said.
Body camera footage also showed a Confederate flag sticker on the toolbox of McMichael's truck, Dial said.
The allegations came as Dial outlined the events that led to Arbery's death and told the court that before Arbery was shot, the three men charged in his murder engaged in an elaborate chase, hitting the 25-year-old jogger with a truck as he repeatedly tried to avoid them.


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As Travis and Gregory McMichael attempted to head him off, Arbery turned and ran past the truck of Bryan, who filmed the killing, and Bryan struck Arbery with the side of his truck, Dial said.
The new details of the final moments of Arbery's life emerged amid a week of nationwide protests over another killing -- that of George Floyd by police in Minneapolis -- and demonstrators have also called for justice in Arbery's case.
Investigators found a swipe from a palm print on the rear door of Bryan's truck, cotton fibers near the truck bed that "we attribute to contact with Mr. Arbery" and a dent below the fibers, he said.
Though Bryan's attorney has contested allegations his client took part in the killing, Dial said Bryan first became involved by yelling to the McMichaels, "Do you got him?" when he saw them chasing the 25-year-old jogger. The McMichaels and Bryan have not entered pleas, but lawyers for all three men have proclaimed their innocence.
0 Replies
 
 

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