53
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 05:03 am
@oralloy,
oralloy says:
Quote:
moderates like me.

what a laugh.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  4  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 05:11 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

It's happening here because of bad luck. It could happen anywhere.

Countries that do not glorify these murderers in the media will be more resistant to the phenomenon of one massacre inspiring another. I suppose our media culture makes us a bit more vulnerable to the spread of this phenomenon.


So... a mental obsession that compels one after another to repeat massacres; just plain old bad luck; and the press giving the killings too much attention...

Anything else that you perceive as a possible reason why these mass murders in these numbers over so long a time period are unique to our country?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 05:18 am
@snood,
No. I think that pretty much covers everything.

Now granted, there are some measures that could reduce the severity and frequency of the massacres. For example, allowing police to intervene when people give off warning signs might stop some of the massacres from happening.

But these measures can only reduce the severity and frequency of the massacres. They won't stop the massacres from continuing.
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 05:35 am
@oralloy,
as I said, clueless.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  5  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 05:47 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

No. I think that pretty much covers everything.



A2K, I submit for your perusal - exhibit A.

Asked in open-ended fashion what factors could possibly contribute to the number and severity of occurrences of mass shootings in these United States, an open-minded, moderate and clear-thinking Trump supporter can’t (or won’t) summon to mind what is obvious to the whole rest of the world - guns. The over abundance of guns; the ease of obtaining guns; the manufacture and sale of guns designed to produce mass human casualties, and the large capacity magazines designed for same.

[edit]
Sorta like Chuck Woolery saying racism has nothing to do with race.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 05:57 am
@snood,
I agree that the presence of guns leads to murderers choosing to kill with guns instead of choosing to kill with other weapons.

I do not agree that the presence of guns leads to murderers choosing to kill in the first place. Without guns, they would just kill with other weapons, and the victims would be just as dead.

I agree that large capacity magazines might make some of the massacres worse than they would be without such magazines.

Guns designed to produce mass human casualties have been tightly regulated for the past 85 years. The only time that I'm aware of where one of these legally-registered guns was used to commit a crime, it was a police officer who committed the crime.
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 08:33 am
Texas state lawmaker calls for 'praying for protection' instead of gun reform in wake of mass shooting
Kate Sullivan

Updated 2:47 PM ET, Sun September 1, 2019

Washington (CNN)A Texas Republican state representative said he opposes stricter gun laws and that people should instead be "praying for protection" hours after a mass shooting shook West Texas.

Republican Matt Schaefer posted on Facebook Saturday that "so-called gun-control solutions" won't "stop a person with evil intent," and that people should instead pray for victims and those with "evil intent."

"'Do something!' is the statement we keep hearing," he wrote. "As an elected official with a vote in Austin, let me tell you what I am NOT going to do. I am NOT going to use the evil acts of a handful of people to diminish the God-given rights of my fellow Texans. Period. None of these so-called gun-control solutions will work to stop a person with evil intent."

Later in the post he continues: "What can we do? YES to praying for victims. YES to praying for protection. YES to praying that God would transform the hearts of people with evil intent."

Schaefer wrote he supported "discipline in the homes" and "fathers not leaving their wives and children," while saying he opposes many proposals backed by Democratic presidential candidates -- universal background checks, so-called red flag gun laws, bans on AR-15s and high-capacity magazines and a mandatory gun buyback.

The Texas Republican wrote the "root of the problem" is "Godless, depraved hearts," in another Facebook post.

A gunman in West Texas went on a shooting spree on Saturday, randomly firing from his vehicle and then from a hijacked mail truck. Seven people were killed, according to Odessa Police PIO Steven LeSueur. Police killed the gunman in a shootout.

The suspect in the shooting used an AR-type weapon, according to Odessa Police Chief Michael Gerke.

The West Texas Saturday shooting comes after mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, in early August.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  7  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 08:54 am
A 17 month toddler is now recovering from injuries from the random shooting Saturday with shrapnel in her chest. How in the world do you pay for protection for random shootings? Is everybody in the world going to go out with armed guards every where they go, including in their cars?

(edit, rant)
I can't believe the president (I can but..) is focusing on a non emergency with out borders and in the process causing absolute chaos and suffering in those for private profit making detention centers and we have had real crisis on our hands with our country with gun nuts with lethal weapons shooting people all the time. The true emergency crises is our gun loving country and this stupid 2nd amendment argument debate which never ends and nothing gets done and people keep dying and getting hurt from idiots with lethal weapons.

Should have looked harder, it is pray instead of pay which doesn't change it in the least as being useless. It's like standing in front of an ongoing train and praying for a miracle to happen so it will stop in time rather than you moving your butt off the tracks.
izzythepush
 
  5  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 09:51 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

Is everybody in the world going to go out with armed guards every where they go, including in their cars?


No, because this isn't the World's problem, it's America's problem.

Btw, I don't think Oralloy will be moved by a 17 month old toddler with chest injuries, he's not equipped for such feelings.
MontereyJack
 
  5  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 10:12 am
@oralloy,
oraloy says
Quote:
Guns designed to produce mass human casualties have been tightly regulated for the past 85 years

He's talking about machine guns here. But it kinda depends on what you mean by "mas human casualties". I submit that semi-autos are designed to inflict mas uman casualties as well. One shoter, its hard to kep track there are so many, killed or wounded 36 people in 33 seconds with an at-15 type before he was taen down by cops who providentially were near. That's slightly more than one per second, and certainly about the least time a shooter would have in the real world. Plent y of vids on outube of people changing magazines on at-15 types. Takes between about two and about five seconds, depending on whether youtoure holding mags or ned to pick them up. So a shoter with ab assault style rifle, anda regular capacity magazine, cal it ten shots, can still kill or wound about 30 people in about 30 seconds. I don't know about oralloy but that qualifies as a mass killing in my book and it is wel within the legal paramaters gun rights activists would allow and it's all standard equipment. and it's lethal. That's why we need stricter gun laws, as the nation strongly favors. Stop violations of people's civil rights by gun violence. Vote the murderous Trump criminal enterprise out in 2020. Restore sanity to America.

bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 12:12 pm
Lets put the AR-15 is not an assault weapon meme to death right now. The only argument that makes even a little sense its not marketed as an assault weapon. Then why does it use the same ammunition, and why can kits to make it full auto are available legally?

Which is which:

http://jaybe-militaria.co.uk/ekmps/shops/barter/images/deactivated-colt-m16-a1-assault-rifle-sold-274-p.jpg
https://gundigest.com/wp-content/uploads/13-ar.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QbYMt1bKyKo/maxresdefault.jpg

Even Colt thinks they're pretty similar.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 12:16 pm
@oralloy,
One of the dumbest things you've ever said and you've posted some doozies.
snood
 
  4  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 12:22 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

I submit that semi-autos are designed to inflict mas uman casualties as well.


No serious-minded person would raise any argument to that. Why else would a weapon be designed to repeatedly fire a bullet as fast as one can pull the trigger?
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 01:20 pm
@snood,
Even faster - there is a "double action" trigger kit that fires a round in both directions of the trigger movement.
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 02:42 pm
AR-15 inventor's family: "Meant to be a military weapon." "He'd have been horrified and sickened."
AR-15 Inventor's Family: This Was Meant to Be a Military Weapon

the family of the inventor of the AR-15 rifle says that the gun was not intended for civilian use but for military purposes.

“Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47,” the Stoner family told NBC News. “He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events.”

https://time.com/4371452/orlando-shooting-ar-15-military-civilian-family/
snood
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 04:11 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Yes, of course a kit like that would make a semi-automatic even more deadly. But I was just referring to what ‘semi-automatic’ denotes.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 06:08 pm
@snood,
And I was agreeing with you. How fast does an automatic have to be so that the difference between automatic and semiautomatic looses any significance?
snood
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 06:35 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
I’ve fired weapons in both modes - automatic and semi-automatic. There is no comparison in speeds. A weapon firing in automatic spits out bullets very rapidly. Think of any movie you’ve seen with people firing “machine guns”. A semi-automatic’s speed depends on how rapidly you can keep pulling a trigger.

I’ve not fired any weapon with a “kit” that allows a bullet to be fired twice with a trigger push/pull, but my guess would be that even that wouldn’t match the speed of a weapon firing in fully automatic mode.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 06:53 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Btw, I don't think Oralloy will be moved by a 17 month old toddler with chest injuries, he's not equipped for such feelings.

Spare me the virtue signalling. It's just silly.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 2 Sep, 2019 06:54 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:
One of the dumbest things you've ever said and you've posted some doozies.

Feel free to try to point out anything untrue in that post, or in any other post of mine.
 

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