57
   

Guns: how much longer will it take ....

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:44 am
@saab,
saab wrote:

So you think that the Jews could have overcome the Nazis.
Berlin had at the time after Hitler got in power around 4 million inhabitants
and of those were about 160.000 Jewish members of the Synagoge,
add more who were not members say 200 000 Jews.
The Nazis took 1702 guns plus 20 000 bullets from the Jews.
That means that about 1% of the Jews could have been able to shoot a Nazi.
How many SS lived in Berlin at that time I don´t know but it was thousands
and that does not include all the Nazis who where against the Jews.
It is very sad that they had no chance whatsoever with or without guns.

Acknowledging everything that u posted,
and that it appears that the Jews in Berlin were undergunned at the time,
thay did a fairly decent job of defending themselves at the Warsau Ghetto.

The Jews acquitted themselves with courage and effectiveness.

I don 't know what
the survival rate was from the concentration camps,
but the Jews who went out bravely defending themselves
n their families in gunfights probably had it better that those
who were subjected to the conditions of those concentration camps. Yes? No?


`
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:44 am
@msolga,
What I find amazing is some claim that keeping guns out of the hands of myself or my wife or hundred of thousands of similar people are going to reduce gun deaths.

How and in what manner is this going to occur.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:46 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

What I find amazing is some claim that keeping guns out of the hands of myself or my wife or hundred of thousands of similar people are going to reduce gun deaths.

How and in what manner is this going to occur.


Most gun deaths (in the home) are accidental...

Cycloptichorn
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:52 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Once more I been handling guns for over 40 years and so had my wife.

Somehow I view the liklihood that we will forget how to safety handle a gun at near zero.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 10:55 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Once more I been handling guns for over 40 years and so had my wife.

Somehow I view the liklihood that we will forget how to safety handle a gun at near zero.



Sure. But it isn't experienced, 40-year gun users who typically shoot themselves- it's kids and others who stumble upon them.

You keep your guns locked up and unloaded?

Cycloptichorn
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 11:01 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

BillRM wrote:

What I find amazing is some claim that keeping guns out of the hands of myself or my wife or hundred of thousands of similar people are going to reduce gun deaths.

How and in what manner is this going to occur.


Most gun deaths (in the home) are accidental...

Cycloptichorn

More people DROWN annually
than die from accidental gunfire.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 11:04 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

BillRM wrote:

Once more I been handling guns for over 40 years and so had my wife.

Somehow I view the liklihood that we will forget how to safety handle a gun at near zero.



Sure. But it isn't experienced, 40-year gun users who typically shoot themselves- it's kids and others who stumble upon them.

You keep your guns locked up and unloaded?

Cycloptichorn

Children shoud be competently TRAINED
in safe gun handling practices, not simply ignored.





David
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 11:31 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Zero reason to do so as we do not have children visiting us at this point when we do then we will lock up the guns.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 11:41 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Before the resistance around 400 000 Jews a had died in the Warsaw Ghetto.
Around 100 000 died due to disiase and starvation.
Between 250-300 000 were sent to Treblinka werre they were killed.

The Warsaw Ghetto was the largest of the Jewish ghettos located in the territory of General Government during the Second World War. The Warsaw Ghetto was established by the German Governor-General Hans Frank on October 16, 1940. At this time, the population of the Ghetto was estimated to be 440,000 people, about 38% of the population of Warsaw. However, the size of the Ghetto was about 4.5% of the size of Warsaw. The Nazis then closed the Warsaw Ghetto from the outside world on November 16, 1940, building a wall with armed guards.

During the next year and a half, thousands of the Polish Jews as well as some Romani people from smaller cities and the countryside were brought into the Ghetto, while diseases (especially typhus) and starvation kept the inhabitants at about the same number.

Despite the grave hardships, life in the Warsaw Ghetto was rich with educational and cultural activities, conducted by its underground organizations. Hospitals, public soup kitchens, orphanages, refugee centers and recreation facilities were formed, as well as a school system. Some schools were illegal and operated under the guise of a soup kitchen. There were secret libraries, classes for the children and even a symphony orchestra. The life in the ghetto was chronicled by the Oyneg Shabbos group.

Over 100,000 of the Ghetto's residents died due to rampant disease or starvation, as well as random killings, even before the Nazis began massive deportations of the inhabitants from the Ghetto's Umschlagplatz to the Treblinka extermination camp during the Gross-aktion Warschau, part of the countrywide Operation Reinhard. Between Tisha B'Av (July 23) and Yom Kippur (September 21) of 1942, about 254,000 Ghetto residents (or at least 300,000 by different accounts) were sent to Treblinka and murdered there. In 1942 Polish resistance officer Jan Karski reported to the Western governments on the situation in the Ghetto and on the extermination camps. By the end of 1942, it was clear that the deportations were to their deaths, and many of the remaining Jews decided to fight.
On January 18, 1943, the first instance of armed resistance occurred when the Germans started the final expulsion of the remaining Jews. The Jewish fighters had some success: the expulsion stopped after four days and the ŻOB and ŻZW resistance organizations took control of the Ghetto, building shelters and fighting posts and operating against Jewish collaborators. During the next three months, all inhabitants of the Ghetto prepared for what they realized would be a final struggle.

The final battle started on the eve of Passover, April 19, 1943, when the large Nazi force entered the ghetto. After initial setbacks, the Germans under the field command of Jürgen Stroop systematically burned and blew up the ghetto buildings, block by block, rounding up or murdering anybody they could capture. Significant resistance ended on April 23, 1943, and the Nazi operation officially ended in mid-May, symbolically culminated with the demolition of the Great Synagogue of Warsaw on May 16, 1943. According to the official report, at least 56,065 people were killed on the spot or deported to German Nazi concentration and death camps, most to Treblinka.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 12:06 pm
@CalamityJane,
My take on it has always been that the laws passed under Weimar were mainly intended to keep guns out of the hands of nazis; and that Hitler inverted the laws and then expanded them.

Kind of like the little bear who changes the:

Quote:
Do not feed the bears


sign to read

Quote:
Do not NEGLECT TO feed the bears


.........
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 12:44 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:

So you think that the Jews could have overcome the Nazis.

Yes, as long as the Jews would have followed these simple instructions:
Armed Jew shoots NAZI, takes NAZI weapon and bullets, arms another Jew... Repeat this over and over.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 12:45 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

You keep your guns locked up and unloaded?


Loaded and readily accessible.

Do you keep your car in the garage with an empty tank?
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 12:48 pm
@H2O MAN,
An empty tank would be comparable to removing the firing pin.

Removing the key from my car is similar to removing the bullets from my gun.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 12:50 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:



Removing the key from my car is similar to removing the bullets from my gun.


Shocked an unloaded gun is worthless.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 12:52 pm
@H2O MAN,
Good ole H2O...

You do realize you argued that the point of being armed is so you don't get shot and killed, don't you? Why would a Nazi who is armed not defend himself from an attack? Doesn't that defeat your argument that being armed prevents your being killed?

parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 12:54 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

parados wrote:



Removing the key from my car is similar to removing the bullets from my gun.


Shocked an unloaded gun is worthless.

Does that mean you will never buy a gun since every gun sold at a retail outlet is unloaded and therefor worthless?
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 01:00 pm
@parados,
WTF?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 01:00 pm
@parados,
You are a moron!
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 01:05 pm
@H2O MAN,
Do you know how many Germans lived in Germany 1933 and how many were Jews.
68 million and of those 1/2 million were Jews registred at a Synagoge. Not counted are those who were Christians but by the Nazi counted as Jews.
The 1/2 million counts men, women and children. How could a few hundred kill millions of Nazis without getting shot themselves? You seem to believe that anybody you think should be killed just stand straight up and down waiting for you to shoot. You are a dreamer.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Apr, 2009 01:06 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:

Before the resistance around 400 000 Jews a had died in the Warsaw Ghetto.
Around 100 000 died due to disiase and starvation.
Between 250-300 000 were sent to Treblinka werre they were killed.

The Warsaw Ghetto was the largest of the Jewish ghettos located in the territory of General Government during the Second World War. The Warsaw Ghetto was established by the German Governor-General Hans Frank on October 16, 1940. At this time, the population of the Ghetto was estimated to be 440,000 people, about 38% of the population of Warsaw. However, the size of the Ghetto was about 4.5% of the size of Warsaw. The Nazis then closed the Warsaw Ghetto from the outside world on November 16, 1940, building a wall with armed guards.

During the next year and a half, thousands of the Polish Jews as well as some Romani people from smaller cities and the countryside were brought into the Ghetto, while diseases (especially typhus) and starvation kept the inhabitants at about the same number.

Despite the grave hardships, life in the Warsaw Ghetto was rich with educational and cultural activities, conducted by its underground organizations. Hospitals, public soup kitchens, orphanages, refugee centers and recreation facilities were formed, as well as a school system. Some schools were illegal and operated under the guise of a soup kitchen. There were secret libraries, classes for the children and even a symphony orchestra. The life in the ghetto was chronicled by the Oyneg Shabbos group.

Over 100,000 of the Ghetto's residents died due to rampant disease or starvation, as well as random killings, even before the Nazis began massive deportations of the inhabitants from the Ghetto's Umschlagplatz to the Treblinka extermination camp during the Gross-aktion Warschau, part of the countrywide Operation Reinhard. Between Tisha B'Av (July 23) and Yom Kippur (September 21) of 1942, about 254,000 Ghetto residents (or at least 300,000 by different accounts) were sent to Treblinka and murdered there. In 1942 Polish resistance officer Jan Karski reported to the Western governments on the situation in the Ghetto and on the extermination camps. By the end of 1942, it was clear that the deportations were to their deaths, and many of the remaining Jews decided to fight.
On January 18, 1943, the first instance of armed resistance occurred when the Germans started the final expulsion of the remaining Jews. The Jewish fighters had some success: the expulsion stopped after four days and the ŻOB and ŻZW resistance organizations took control of the Ghetto, building shelters and fighting posts and operating against Jewish collaborators. During the next three months, all inhabitants of the Ghetto prepared for what they realized would be a final struggle.

The final battle started on the eve of Passover, April 19, 1943, when the large Nazi force entered the ghetto. After initial setbacks, the Germans under the field command of Jürgen Stroop systematically burned and blew up the ghetto buildings, block by block, rounding up or murdering anybody they could capture. Significant resistance ended on April 23, 1943, and the Nazi operation officially ended in mid-May, symbolically culminated with the demolition of the Great Synagogue of Warsaw on May 16, 1943. According to the official report, at least 56,065 people were killed on the spot or deported to German Nazi concentration and death camps, most to Treblinka.
That 's a very interesting account.

Its too bad that the Jews did not have more guns.
 

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