18
   

Welcome Sports Haters!

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 01:45 pm
@wmwcjr,
wmwcjr wrote:

I'm mystified as to what accounts for the differences in our childhood experiences. I believe what you've said about your own, just as I hope you don't think I'm lying about mine (not to mention those of a few friends of mine which I've alluded to in previous posts in this thread).
I can only offer one exception to the general rule,
when I was 8 and very newly arrived in Phoenix, Arizona.
An adult cajoled n beguiled me into trying to play baseball, against my better judgment.
I don 't know what his role was; he was hanging around.

I did not know the rules of the game, nor did I know who was on
which of the opposing teams. I was inundated with conflicting advice
about what I shoud do. I made mistakes, since I did not know the rules.
That was my first and my last baseball game.
The kids on my team were furious and very, very obscene in their verbal abuse,
until I began to pound upon their countenances, in retribution.
Some of them were in supine positions upon the Earth and others fled the area,
but the vituperative acrimony ended. (The other team was laffing hysterically.)

Counterattack was reflexive in my nature.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 01:54 pm
@wmwcjr,
wmwcjr wrote:

A thought just occurred to me. One very important reason why you were not bullied is because you were never forced in school to take sports-centered P.E. in which sports were crammed down your throat, often without any instruction since many P.E. coaches simply did not teach (as opposed to honest-to-goodness physical fitness classes, which are still an innovation today). You were very fortunate. I don't know how you escaped mandatory P.E.
I simply refused to participate in athletic competition,
with the aforesaid exception, from which I learned.





David
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 01:54 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
R u accusing me of being a liberal?

I have always voted against them, so far as I remember.


No I wasn't. That is impossible to judge from here. Voting conservative and displaying forcefully a predatory temperament with guns might have more than one explanation.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 01:58 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
R u accusing me of being a liberal?

I have always voted against them, so far as I remember.


No I wasn't. That is impossible to judge from here.
Voting conservative and displaying forcefully a predatory temperament with guns
might have more than one explanation.


Thank u.





David
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 02:34 pm
Wow, you all seem to have a totally different P.E. system than I grew up with.
From day one in Canada, or in Alberta where I grew up, PE is not about sports per se, but about physical activity. There is an understanding that not all kids are athletes but the everyone need some exercise. Not all kids will be good in every sport either but they will at least get a fundamental understanding of each type of sport or game. The school programs are an introduction to many games and so on. Just like music or chemistry.. Not all kids will master these disciplines, but they will get a basic knowledge of it. They may not choose to pursue it, but that is not necessarily the goal. Isn't the the goal of schools to give a child a well rounded education?
During school I was introduced to individual sports and team sports. Here is a list of all the different activities that my children and I took in PE class.
Besides basic first aid courses and workout routines, stretching, sit-ups, push-ups and weight training, we were introduced to a myriad of different activities.
Individual sports such as Track - running both long distance and speed races, high and long jumping, shot put. Downhill and x-skiing, snow shoeing, hiking, camping, swimming, canoeing, kayaking, bicycling, shooting, archery, judo -self defense, golf, badminton, handball, racketball, gymnastics and ballroom dancing. (I had a hell of time trying to get my son to participate in dancing.)
Team sports such as baseball, softball, soccer, volleyball, basketball, football, rugby, field, floor and ice hockey are taught as well, but again it's not necessarily a competitive thing but an introduction and for the joy of healthy living. Bullying is not tolerated.
If a child wants to play on a school team, it's considered extracurricular and is not for credit of any kind and the same goes for cheer leading. Mind you, most of the cheer leading teams in my schools were rather embarrassing.
Most kids that play sports competitively play for community teams.
They've only recently introduced sport schools, where students can choose a school that specializes in one particular sport, generally for a half day of one semester each year ie, hockey, soccer and golf. These programs are in place of PE. They don't get the cross section of 'sports' the rest of the kids get. Students must tryout for these programs and must keep a high grade average in order to stay in the program or they will be transferred to the regular program. We also have schools for dance, music, languages, military and for kids that are intellectually gifted.
I personally don't think I would have experienced many of these sports if my school hadn't introduced me to them. I'm glad I had the opportunity to try them.














spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 02:51 pm
@Ceili,
That sounds very trying Ceili. They must think you need a lot of management.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 03:33 pm
@spendius,
Well the management wasn't mine alone it is was spread it out over 12 years.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 04:28 pm
@Ceili,
So you could get to bed now and again then?
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 04:36 pm
@spendius,
Yes, thank-you for your concern. Wink
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 04:39 pm
@Ceili,
If the P.E. system you describe is the norm in your country, then I wish I could have grown up in Canada instead. One of the major flaws of the mandatory sports-centered P.E. in our country, the United States, is that hardly any instruction was given as to how particular games were played or how to develop certain skills that are needed in order to play the game well. The assumption seems to have been made that all boys were athletes. This was my experience and the experience of other middle-aged nonathletic guys I've talked to over the years. The hypocrisy of the P.E. establishment was astounding. In my 4th- and 5th-grade P.E., all of us boys would be tested to see how many push-ups and chin-ups we could do, how far we could jump, how fast we could run, etc. In other words, the P.E. teachers knew which boys were falling behind their athletic peers in terms of their physical development. Was any mention made of exercise programs that could have helped the nonathletic boys get into shape? No. In my gym classes in junior high, was any mention ever made of bodybuilding, which would have been great for boys with undeveloped physiques, such as myself when I was that age? No, of course not. I never so much as saw a set in weights in my junior high's gym. I heard of Remedial Math and Remedial English but never Remedial P.E. The very idea elicits a sneer. The truth is that the P.E. establishment did not care about sedentary kids; their only concern was to promote sports. In my 8th-grade P.E. class one day, I was forced to participate in a game of basketball, despite the fact that I had never been taught how the game is played. The result was disastrous, of course; and I was made to feel like I was an inferior person. Many years later (only two years ago, as a matter of fact), I started working with a personal trainer on a bodybuilding program at a local health club. Occasionally he would vary the workout routine by exposing me to one sport or another. I was amazed on the day that he taught me how to shoot a basketball. I had grown up assuming that shooting a basketball was merely a matter of thrusting the ball towards the hoop (which, of course, is incorrect). I was astounded to learn there was a particular skill involving certain finger and wrist movements that had to be learned and repeatedly practiced until it could be done without thinking about it, like learning how to type. So, I was amazed to learn that I had been led to feel like a loser in my 8th-grade P.E. class for no good reason; I had never been taught what my physical trainer showed me. The truth of the matter is that the mandatory traditional sports-centered P.E. of the "Baby Boom" generation was absolutely dreaded by physically weak and overweight boys because of its cruelty and stupidity. These kids were frequently bullied. Fortunately, though, there now is a movement to reform P.E. in this country. Whether it actually catches on and succeeds remains to be seen.
wmwcjr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 04:45 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Hooray! :-) Good for you. You stood up for yourself. And I'm not being sarcastic. I really mean it.
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 04:49 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Students who had the misfortune to attend schools where sports-centered P.E. (which I think was the unpleasant reality in most of the country) was mandatory had no choice. We had no choice because P.E. was mandatory, not elective. There was no option. Even physically handicapped kids had to take P.E. (This included two of my friends.) We had no choice.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 06:10 pm
@wmwcjr,
wmwcjr wrote:

Students who had the misfortune to attend schools where sports-centered P.E. (which I think was the unpleasant reality in most of the country) was mandatory had no choice. We had no choice because P.E. was mandatory, not elective. There was no option. Even physically handicapped kids had to take P.E. (This included two of my friends.) We had no choice.
U coud choose Nancy Reagan 's advice:
just say NO.

That 's what I did.





David
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 06:45 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I knew you were a liberal underneath Dave.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 07:10 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

I knew you were a liberal underneath Dave. [ ?? ]
Scurrilous calumny & truculent obloquy
in furtherance of aspersive mendacity & opprobrious prevarication !!!
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 07:58 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Well that proves you were a lawyer. Smile
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 01:33 am
@Ceili,
Quote:
Wow, you all seem to have a totally different P.E. system than I grew up with.

He seems to have a totally different P.E. system than the one I grew up with too. Is what he's talking about in America?
Quote:
From day one in Canada, or in Alberta where I grew up, PE is not about sports per se, but about physical activity. There is an understanding that not all kids are athletes but the everyone need some exercise. Not all kids will be good in every sport either but they will at least get a fundamental understanding of each type of sport or game. The school programs are an introduction to many games and so on. Just like music or chemistry.. Not all kids will master these disciplines, but they will get a basic knowledge of it. They may not choose to pursue it, but that is not necessarily the goal. Isn't the the goal of schools to give a child a well rounded education?

That's how it was for me too - in New Jersey - from day one.
Quote:
During school I was introduced to individual sports and team sports. Here is a list of all the different activities that my children and I took in PE class.
Besides basic first aid courses and workout routines, stretching, sit-ups, push-ups and weight training, we were introduced to a myriad of different activities.
Individual sports such as Track - running both long distance and speed races, high and long jumping, shot put. Downhill and x-skiing, snow shoeing, hiking, camping, swimming, canoeing, kayaking, bicycling, shooting, archery, judo -self defense, golf, badminton, handball, racketball, gymnastics and ballroom dancing. (I had a hell of time trying to get my son to participate in dancing.)

We also did fencing and square dancing....but we didn't do skiing, canoeing and kayaking - in P.E. at least. And I can see why - P.E. was maybe like 50 minutes a day and by the time you got each kid geared up with skiis, a kayak and canoe and transported to a place that could happen - that'd be pretty much the whole school day gone (my school was in a flat suburban area, within two miles of an exit on the New Jersey turnpike- thirty minutes outside of Manhattan). Nope, no skiing, canoing or kayaking in gym - but you could join the outdoor club or ski club and do all that stuff.

Quote:
If a child wants to play on a school team, it's considered extracurricular and is not for credit of any kind and the same goes for cheer leading. Mind you, most of the cheer leading teams in my schools were rather embarrassing.
Most kids that play sports competitively play for community teams.

Again, same.
Quote:
They've only recently introduced sport schools, where students can choose a school that specializes in one particular sport, generally for a half day of one semester each year ie, hockey, soccer and golf. These programs are in place of PE. They don't get the cross section of 'sports' the rest of the kids get. Students must tryout for these programs and must keep a high grade average in order to stay in the program or they will be transferred to the regular program. We also have schools for dance, music, languages, military and for kids that are intellectually gifted.

Yeah - magnet schools. We have those too.

It sounds to me as if this young man has had a specific and unpleasant experience and may be generalizing it to how P.E. is run in every school by every P.E. teacher. Maybe he just had a mean teacher.

All I can tell you is that I had a wonderful P.E. experience - and I'm not a particularly sports minded person, although I do enjoy movement and expending energy physically and am reasonably coordinated, so though there were things in gym I hated (field hockey- I got whacked in the shins so many times) there were things I also loved (archery, fencing, softball).

My problem was I hated the uniform. We had gym every day and we had one uniform. So if you couldn't wash it from the day before - it was gross to put on again - and I hated that. So I started cutting P.E. to the point that I had to take it TWICE a day for my last two months of school so they'd let me pass and I'd have enough credits to graduate.
That worked out fine though. I cut it during winter so I got out of playing volleyball inside with the boys who always jumped in front of you and all over you to get the ball as if just because you were a girl you wouldn't be able to get it over the net - and I took it twice a day during May and June where we got to be outside and play baseball/softball- much more to my liking.


Quote:
I personally don't think I would have experienced many of these sports if my school hadn't introduced me to them. I'm glad I had the opportunity to try them.

That's exactly how I feel.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 02:50 am
@wmwcjr,
Quote:
One of the major flaws of the mandatory sports-centered P.E. in our country, the United States, is that hardly any instruction was given as to how particular games were played or how to develop certain skills that are needed in order to play the game well.

That's weird - because that's where I learned all about the rules of games like soccer, volleyball, and basketball - which are the games I never chose to play outside of gym class.

Quote:
The hypocrisy of the P.E. establishment was astounding. In my 4th- and 5th-grade P.E., all of us boys would be tested to see how many push-ups and chin-ups we could do, how far we could jump, how fast we could run, etc. In other words, the P.E. teachers knew which boys were falling behind their athletic peers in terms of their physical development. Was any mention made of exercise programs that could have helped the nonathletic boys get into shape? No. In my gym classes in junior high, was any mention ever made of bodybuilding, which would have been great for boys with undeveloped physiques, such as myself when I was that age? No, of course not. I never so much as saw a set in weights in my junior high's gym.

Again, I can remember taking the President's Physical Fitness test and we all got these little papers to take home telling us and our parents how our performance compared to that of the other kids our age around the country. I remember it distinctly - because I was really good at sit-ups and running - but I couldn't do push-ups or chin ups - although I could do the relaxed arm hang where you just had to hang from the bar until you couldn't hang there anymore.
Do you think that maybe the point of that was for the kids themselves, as well as the teachers, to see who needed work where and for them (the P.E. teachers) then to incorporate games into their lessons that would work on the overall fitness of the students?
Because let's face it - if you can't run - running for at least part of an hour every day is going to increase your endurance and ability to run. It's not rocket science. Maybe the P.E. teachers expected people to be self-directed in their efforts to improve their fitness outside of class- because if someone is sedentary from childhood- there's a reason they're sedentary. They feel more comfortable being sedentary.
I was the kind of kid that unless I was reading a book - I was moving - on my own, walking the dog, playing jumprope, ice skating, sledding, etc. There are other kids that you cant pay to move and get outside. A P.E. teacher could nag these kids all they wanted and those kids would still rather sit inside.
They best teacher is experience. If the teacher gives a kid an experience, it's then up to the kid to either pick up on it and expand it or leave it lay.

Quote:
No. In my gym classes in junior high, was any mention ever made of bodybuilding, which would have been great for boys with undeveloped physiques, such as myself when I was that age?

I think that has more to do with age appropriate activity that won't harm or negatively impact joints and bones during sensitive and critical growth periods. By highschool - every highschool I ever worked in had a weight room - that anyone - including teachers could use. Again, it's self-direction.
Quote:
I heard of Remedial Math and Remedial English but never Remedial P.E.

It's called Adaptive P.E. and it's legally mandated.

Quote:
The truth of the matter is that the mandatory traditional sports-centered P.E. of the "Baby Boom" generation was absolutely dreaded by physically weak and overweight boys because of its cruelty and stupidity. These kids were frequently bullied. Fortunately, though, there now is a movement to reform P.E. in this country. Whether it actually catches on and succeeds remains to be seen.

I think it's much, much, much more about individual fitness now. Schools expect that students who want to play a sport at the highschool level will have had YEARS of experience playing that sport on outside teams in the community. No one is under the impression anymore that a student can play a sport at a competitive level simply from having played that sport in a P.E. class now and then.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 06:22 am

If thay had offered fencing or archery, I 'd have accepted either of those.
Strength building exercise woud have been welcome: push ups etc. I did those at home.
I took the Charles Atlas Course, by correspondence, in my childhood.
It worked; I got my money 's worth.
Swimming was very welcome; I joined in that; no resistance.
We were told that we coud not graduate from hi school without learning to swim.



I 've gotta say:
thru the entirety of my academic experience from kindergarten (from which I dropped out)
thru my doctorate, no one within the sphere of my cognition was ever the victim of bullying
nor of accusations of homosexuality.




David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 06:42 am

I remember, in elementary school, in Arizona,
there was some system of rationing hedonic units, by some reasoning.
Included within this, was attending P.E. (which makes little sense, since it was part of the curriculum).
Because of my non-use of those accumulated credits, inadvertently, de facto, I became a hoarder.
I was very wealthy in those credits, which were useful (transferable) for other things,
including immunity from something unpleasant; (I don 't remember what it was).

I had many more credits than I coud possibly use thru the end of the term.
The other students knew that n asked me to favor them with the benefit of that immunity,
so I dealt in those units, favoring my friends n ignoring kids who 'd been less than polite to me.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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