31
   

THE WAR IN GAZA

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 03:36 pm
@Francis,
Francis wrote:

Trying to get a rise out of me again, George?

My understanding of humor and human values is not compatible with foofie's..

Spreading revisionism and falsehood is not my cup of tea..


Not trying for a rise at all - merely agreeing with your earlier post. I was suggesting that Foofie could benefit from a somewhat increased willingness to laugh at himself.

Perhaps the problem rests with the indefinate quality of English pronouns. I'm sure such confusion would never occur in French.

Alternatively, perhaps you have never been sufficiently willing to accept the idea that I really am a very nice guy !
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 03:44 pm
George wrote:
Perhaps the problem rests with the indefinate...

That's exactly where the problem lies, George.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 05:44 pm
@Francis,
Francis wrote:

George wrote:
Perhaps the problem rests with the indefinate...

That's exactly where the problem lies, George.

OK indefinite !!!


goddamn frogs !!
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 07:32 pm
Why is this thread continuing ad infinitum? The war in Gaza is sort of over. Any more hostilities should at least get its own thread with a nice Hollywood style title (i.e., Return to Gaza; Gaza II; Three Shekels In a Fountain)?

By the way, the Gaza situation might be small potatoes compared to the reality that Iran is supposed to be able to make a bomb if they chose to shortly, according to what I heard on the radio, and there are Sunni Muslim countries that are as concerned about that as Israel is. This might be the next big concern over there.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 07:43 pm
@Foofie,
foofie said
Quote:
the reality that Iran is supposed to be able to make a bomb if they chose to shortly,

interesting.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Mar, 2009 08:06 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
By the way, the Gaza situation might be small potatoes compared to the reality that Iran is supposed to be able to make a bomb if they chose to shortly, according to what I heard on the radio, and there are Sunni Muslim countries that are as concerned about that as Israel is. This might be the next big concern over there.

Don't look for Obama to do anything. Iran knows this as well.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 12:39 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 12:46 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
Why is this thread continuing ad infinitum? The war in Gaza is sort of over.


For some, perhaps. I suspect the after-effects are sort of lingering for the unforunate folk who actually live there. Interesting that you describe "the Gaza situation" as being perhaps "small potatoes", compared to bigger things. Where is your compassion for the ordinary human beings who have had to live through this? You talk as if it's some sort of chess game, or something .....
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 09:03 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

Where is your compassion for the ordinary human beings who have had to live through this?

They seem to enjoy it, as the popularity of Hamas has risen.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE52841Q20090309?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

"Hamas's popularity rises after Israel's Gaza war"
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 09:08 am
@msolga,
The war is not over yet. I read a few days ago that there is still some rocketing from Gaza. The matter of the kidnapped Shalit is still pending. When Gaza is rebuilt, will Hamas recommence the rocketing and shelling. Presumably, there will be tremendous pressure on Hamas from within Gaza to refrain from this, which would bring on the destruction of the rebuilt buildings and facilities. Hamas has certainly not withdrawn its pledge to destroy Israel.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 09:36 am
@okie,
They seem to enjoy it?

Of course Hamas' is popular now. Anytime there is a war people rally behind their leaders. Just because you and Israel want them to believe that all they have to do is get rid of Hamas to have peace doesn't mean it's true. Clearly they are a lot closer to the situation than you are and know better what they need right now. The last thing they need is to destroy the only leadership they have.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 09:51 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

They seem to enjoy it, as the popularity of Hamas has risen.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE52841Q20090309?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

"Hamas's popularity rises after Israel's Gaza war"


Could this conceivably be an indicator that Israel's strategy of continuous injustice and retaliation without end isn't working?

Gosh !
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 09:51 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

Quote:
Why is this thread continuing ad infinitum? The war in Gaza is sort of over.


For some, perhaps. I suspect the after-effects are sort of lingering for the unforunate folk who actually live there. Interesting that you describe "the Gaza situation" as being perhaps "small potatoes", compared to bigger things. Where is your compassion for the ordinary human beings who have had to live through this? You talk as if it's some sort of chess game, or something .....



I did not know I had to keep my compassion for "ordinary human beings" in the "on" position 24/7. I do like to see the big picture, and since I do not like to multi-task, I put my compassion for ordinary human beings on "standby" mode, while I look at the big picture. However, your point might lead one to think there should now be a SEPARATE thread for the "lingering" "after-affects" of the Gaza (you pick a term that is politically correct in your mind).

And yes, there are small potatoes, and large potatoes. Even in political/military parlance. You may be concerned about the ordinary human beings; you should not proselytize to me, in my opinion, since I too am an ordinary human being, and the people in Gaza and Israel are not my charge. If I am pro-Israel, I also have a favorite baseball team. You can try to understand me; however, gratuitous advice on my concerns is not welcome.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 10:02 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:


Could this conceivably be an indicator that Israel's strategy of continuous injustice and retaliation without end isn't working?

Gosh !


My dictionary's definition of "gosh" says a euphemism for God. Why would you question a country where the religion is based on the Old Testament? Is that not a compendium of stories about injustice and retaliation?

The situation there may just wind up as a blessing for the U.S.A. if we wind up to be a peace keeping force there for the current century, in my opinion. I am sure we can "find" a Jewish high-ranking U.S. Army officer or two, to be over any American troops there (for the benefit of good community relations).
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 11:00 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

okie wrote:

They seem to enjoy it, as the popularity of Hamas has risen.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE52841Q20090309?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

"Hamas's popularity rises after Israel's Gaza war"


Could this conceivably be an indicator that Israel's strategy of continuous injustice and retaliation without end isn't working?

Gosh !

It could instead be an indicator of the following, George. Have you considered that?
Advocate wrote:

Hamas has certainly not withdrawn its pledge to destroy Israel.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 12:33 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

They seem to enjoy it, as the popularity of Hamas has risen.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE52841Q20090309?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

"Hamas's popularity rises after Israel's Gaza war"


georgeob1 wrote:

Could this conceivably be an indicator that Israel's strategy of continuous injustice and retaliation without end isn't working?

Gosh !

okie wrote:

It could instead be an indicator of the following, George. Have you considered that?
Advocate wrote:

Hamas has certainly not withdrawn its pledge to destroy Israel.



Let me see if I can follow your logic;
1. Hamas' populartity among the people of Gaza has risen following the Israeli attacks & destruction of their city.
2. This is certainly NOT an indicator that the Israeli strategy isn't working.
3. Instead it is an indicator that Hamas has not withdrawn its pledge to destroy Israel.

That makes everything clear!
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 10:15 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Let me see if I can follow your logic;
1. Hamas' populartity among the people of Gaza has risen following the Israeli attacks & destruction of their city.
2. This is certainly NOT an indicator that the Israeli strategy isn't working.
3. Instead it is an indicator that Hamas has not withdrawn its pledge to destroy Israel.

That makes everything clear!

War tends to galvanize the people that suffer the experience of it, one way or the other. So the way I see it, the people must not be too troubled by the prospects of enduring more suffering, they instead agree with the philosophy of Hamas, that they want Israel totally eliminated. Otherwise, the people would turn against Hamas and try to elect leadership that believed in a peaceful solution of co-existence.

To explain in different words, the people apparently do not believe in peaceful co-existence, they instead must believe in trying to totally destroy Israel, otherwise they would not still support Hamas. Thus, only one conclusion can be drawn. They will therefore continue to attack Israel and they will therefore have to endure the consequences of counterattack and destruction, as a direct consequence of their own decision to support Hamas.

Is that more clear?
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 10:34 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:


To explain in different words, the people apparently do not believe in peaceful co-existence, they instead must believe in trying to totally destroy Israel, otherwise they would not still support Hamas. Thus, only one conclusion can be drawn. They will therefore continue to attack Israel and they will therefore have to endure the consequences of counterattack and destruction, as a direct consequence of their own decision to support Hamas.

Is that more clear?


Since 1967 Israel has amply demonstrated that it doesn't believe in "peaceful co-existence" either. It has systematically deprived the Palestinian population of the freedom to move about their territiry and conduct ordianry economic and social lives; it has systematically taken almost half of their territory and done so without any process for compensation or expression of their political will; it has deprived the Palestiunians of any political rights and subjected them to military occupation for decades. After all of this it demands that the Palestinians renounce any ambition to restore their losses as a precondition of any negotiations towards a peaceful accomodation.

Indeed it is fairly clear that all of this is a well-thought-out Israeli strategy to expand their territory. They have put forward the illusion that they are seeking a peaceful "land for peace" solution (i.e. we will give you back some of YOUR land in exchange for permanent status as a vassal state), while in fact exploiting the conflict to achieve the goals of Zionist zealots for the creation of a greater Israel.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Mar, 2009 10:53 pm
@georgeob1,
Perhaps it can be interpreted that way, but I see it this way. What if Castro began shooting rockets at Florida on a regular basis? We may first strike back at this missile lauching sites, but then if more attacks came, we well might go capture parts of Cuba where the rockets are being shot from. Then if he shoots more rockets from remaing parts of Cuba under his control, we would probably take more of his land. Castro might then very likely enter into negotiation and demand his land be returned, while accusing us of expanding our territory and violating international law. We would be reluctant to return any land because we would consider it a security threat to our citizens in Florida. We may return a portion of it as a gesture, but following more attacks, we may well take the land back again and then reject any offers to give up the land from then on. And further, any land under our control in Cuba, we very well may institute restrictions to certain areas and to certain activities. At this point, the Cubans would be complaining daily about our oppression of them, and our destruction of their land and belongings. But if more missile attacks took place from other parts of Cuba, would we be likely to just hand over the land already taken, and abandon any restrictions upon Cuba?

And if the Cubans continued to support Castro and his troublesome policies, how much sympathy would you have for them, George?
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2009 12:39 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
I did not know I had to keep my compassion for "ordinary human beings" in the "on" position 24/7. I do like to see the big picture, and since I do not like to multi-task, I put my compassion for ordinary human beings on "standby" mode, while I look at the big picture. ....


No, of course you don't have to automatically feel compassion, Foofie. You either do or you don't respond the the acute suffering of ordinary people experiencing terrible things, (even if you have no such similar experience yourself) as a result of war. No matter which "side" you're on, in any particular conflict. Seems to me that you just want to see your side "win", no matter what sorts of appalling tactics it might employ to gain their "victory". The trouble with that, of course, is that the rest of the civilized world is appalled by your side's tactics. One day, not too far away, Israel might just wake up & wonder why there's no support left for it's "cause". Perhaps you should include that notion in your "big picture"?
 

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