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THE WAR IN GAZA

 
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 02:19 pm
@ebrown p,
Saying Israel is a "war-loving country" is BS and indicative of your anti-Israel bias. Israel only engages in war to save the nation and people.

As for Goodwin's Law [sic], the similarities to Hamas and the Nazis are real and significant. The refs to the Nazis are not just debating tactics. BTW, the Christian Arabs, and other minorities, are faring worse than the Israelis. They have no defenses to the Muslim depredations.
ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 02:31 pm
@Advocate,
There is a big difference between the term "war-loving government" and "war loving country". The current government in Israel is a disaster... this does not say anything about the country of Israel any more than criticizing the Bush administration says anything about our Country.

You are completely off the deep end when you talk about Nazi's and "Muslim depredations". I choose not to follow you there.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 08:15 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

I find it hard to distinguish the actions of the Israeli government from the actions of Hamas.

Both sides have made the same choice-- deciding that militancy, harsh words and demonizing the other side is the best way forward. Neither side is listening to the concerns of the other... and neither side is interested in finding a compromise solution.

Of course, Hamas doesn't represent all Palestinians, nor does the current hawkish Israeli government represent all Israeli's.

The sad irony is that it was the bellicose actions of the Israeli government that put the militant Hamas in power... and it was the bellicose actions of Hamas that put a war-loving Israeli government in power.

I hope that both sides realize what asses their leaders are. The violence won't stop until voices of reasonable people are heard on both sides.

The sad thing is that right now both sides are the same.

They are both completely certain that their actions are justified.
And they both think they can win.



Well one difference is that the Hamas charter refers to the proven forgery of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion:

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

This reflects 21st century thinking? The Protocols were a 19th Century forgery. Do you not see something wrong with this picture, so to speak?

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 08:20 pm
@H2O MAN,
Best to start in your own backyard. Take control of the thousands upon thousands of American terrorists.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 08:21 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

I find it hard to distinguish the actions of the Israeli government from the actions of Hamas.


I think you need to check your eyesight.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 08:23 pm
@okie,
Quote:
I find it hard to distinguish the actions of the Israeli government from the actions of Hamas.


Hamas, the Brits, the USA, the Israelis, they're all the same.
0 Replies
 
Fountofwisdom
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2008 11:00 pm
The whole point is that Israel is making no effort to determine who is guilty: they are just dropping bombs. The bombing of a university cannot be justified. The fact is that the reputation of Israel has sunk so low that no one is surprised by this latest act of murder and barbarism.
To give an allegory to this story, a ginger kid throws stones at your window, so you retaliate by randomly shooting ginger people and blowing up their houses. You claim you were provoked.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 07:09 am
@Fountofwisdom,
Fountofwisdom wrote:

The whole point is that Israel is making no effort to determine who is guilty: they are just dropping bombs.


Your comments are ass backwards.

HAMAS is the king of murder and barbarism. HAMAS is the group that is just firing missiles over the border and making no effort to avoid civilian targets.
The Israeli military is bending over backwards to protect civilian lives, but HAMAS makes this difficult because they intermingle with the civilian population.

HAMAS is terrorizing and killing innocent Palestinians and innocent Israelis.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 08:28 am
Hamas is also the group that engineered suicide bombers who targeted children, women, and the elderly. Do you remember the bombed pizza parlors, bingo games, city buses, etc. Israel has been too kind.
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 08:57 am
Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, there is blame enough to go around to both sides; as the human rights organization has recognized. Even if Israel could prove there are weapons or Hamas nearby, they have an international obligation to minimize harm to civilians and make sure the military gain in not disproportionate to the harm to civilians. Hamas as everyone knows take no account of Israeli civilians in their fight against occupation from Israel which is also against international law.

Israel/Hamas: Civilians Must Not Be Targets

Also to be considered is the human suffering the people of Gaza have been under since Hamas came to power. Regardless of whether Israel and the US consider Hamas to be terrorists, Israel has no right to cause such inhuman suffering for the people in Gaza. Also Gaza has a right to defend itself the same as Israel from being occupied. They just don't have the right to kill civilians indiscriminately of which they have been guilty of.


HUMAN RIGHTS IN PALESTINE

I don't see an end to this despite the military action taken now by Israel. They can't kill every single man woman and child and when the dust of the rubble finally settle, they simply fight on and on...getting no where for both Israel and Palestine.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 11:18 am
I doubt that any country has acted more humanely as has Israel. In the height of the fighting, Israel sent 63 truck loads of food, medicine, etc., to the Gazans.

Israel could easily kill hundreds of thousands of Gazans, but instead killed a few hundred, with the majority being Hamas fighters.

Israel does not occupy Gaza, or, for that matter, the WB. Those areas are not countries that could be occupied.

ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 11:37 am
@Advocate,
Quote:
I doubt that any country has acted more humanely as has Israel.


This is laughable, Advocate.

Israel has imposed a harsh economic and military blockade on the people of Gaza plunging civilians into poverty and hunger. This was before they started dropping bombs on Gaza.

To say that the harsh treatment of Gazan civilians by a militarily superior Israel is justified is one thing.

To pretend that dropping bombs on people you have been starving is "humane" is ridiculous.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 11:44 am
@ebrown p,
Your post is so silly. From day one, Hamas has never ceased attacking Israel. No self-respecting country would tolerate this. You know very well how restrained Israel has been in responding. Moreover, Israel has been begging the Pals to sit down and reach some reasonable accord.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 12:25 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:


Israel has imposed a harsh economic and military blockade on the people of Gaza plunging civilians into poverty and hunger. This was before they started dropping bombs on Gaza.



Based on your point above, can I conclude that once upon a time the Palestineans in Gaza were wealthy? And how could Israel "plunge" the Gazans into hunger? Are Jews supposed to feed the starving masses in other countries? Perhaps, the Egyptians might have more of a brotherly concern about starving Gazans?

Are you asking the Israelis to be concerned about people that have a government whose charter subscribes to the forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Are you also concerned about whether Boston Brahmins care enough for inner-city Bostonians? If yes, you are so lucky to have so much of the milk of human kindness.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 01:51 pm
Browny, I guess it is cruel that Israel will not provide better rockets and shells to Hamas. But Israel does pay millions to Hamas, which pays for its fighters.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 02:27 pm
@Advocate,


Iran pays and supports HAMAS.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 03:21 pm
@ebrown p,
Quote:
Israel has imposed a harsh economic and military blockade on the people of Gaza plunging civilians into poverty and hunger. This was before they started dropping bombs on Gaza.


Hamas claims to be the govt og Gaza, after all they were elected.
It is up to hamas, as the govt, to provide jobs, food, electricity, fuel, and every other thing that their citizens need.

Also, since Hamas was elected and is the govt of Gaza, doesnt that make the rocket attacks, the suicide bomber attacks, and all of the other acts they carry out against Israel acts of war?
And as such, Israel has every right to retaliate with every means at their disposal.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 03:59 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate, we have had our differences, but you seem to have this issue nailed down.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 04:02 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

It is up to hamas, as the govt, to provide jobs, food, electricity, fuel, and every other thing that their citizens need.


Well, that's exactly why they attack Israel ... if you believe their argumentation, that is. (Otherwise - you're certainly aware of the geography - only Israel can provide it, at least under present circumstances.)
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2008 08:02 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Are you saying tha the Gaza strip has no borders with any other country besides Israel?
Have you ever looked at a map?
They share a border with Egypt, so that is one way the can import stuff.
They also have a seacoast they can import stuff from.

The fact of the matter is, Hamas does not want to do anything to help their citizens.
If they actually were to try, it would show to everyone just how corrupt and worthless Hamas is as a governing body.

Israel is not required to provide any type of support to the GazaStrip.
After all, Gaza has its own govt.
 

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