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Mon 12 Jan, 2009 10:50 am
For 17 days till up now I've been doing nothing but researches and news tracing, just trying to know why in the world would some civilized country as Israel claim to be would act in this brutal way, menioning that this only to defend it seld, its just shown now on the CNN and BBC news website, that there were 917 killed and more than 4160 injured as of this offence, more than 60% of the former numbers are women and children, while 3 schools were just blown away, come on, am not an anti-Israelian, but where is the logic, and what happened for all that.
Try justifying this, but remember that "No one have the authority to judge, we have the right to support, the right to neglect, we can choose which way to go, but still its only a matter of probability to be on the right one".
the justification is the easy part, it's self defense, plain and simple, is it overkill, probably,
@masterk17,
masterk17 wrote:
For 17 days till up now I've been doing nothing but researches and news tracing, just trying to know why in the world would some civilized country as Israel claim to be would act in this brutal way, menioning that this only to defend it seld, its just shown now on the CNN and BBC news website, that there were 917 killed and more than 4160 injured as of this offence, more than 60% of the former numbers are women and children, while 3 schools were just blown away, come on, am not an anti-Israelian, but where is the logic, and what happened for all that.
Good question: "just trying to know why in the world would some civilized country as Israel claim to be would act in this brutal way."
The answer is that sociopathology does not respond to civilized behavior. And, living in a nation-state does not allow Israel to remain as civilized as western democracies that are at peace.
Israel was put into a rough neighborhood that hates Jews! That is really the crux of it.
@Foofie,
Quote:Israel was put into a rough neighborhood that hates Jews! That is really the crux of it.
well ive got 2 Questions. Why does the neighberhood hates Israel ?!
and what do you mean by "Israel
was put into a rough neighborhood"???!
@masterk17,
masterk17 wrote:
Quote:Israel was put into a rough neighborhood that hates Jews! That is really the crux of it.
well ive got 2 Questions. Why does the neighberhood hates Israel ?!
and what do you mean by "Israel
was put into a rough neighborhood"???!
Yeah, what a laugh. Shouldn't that read 'decided to move into?'
What a bunch of morons. Did they not see this coming? Or just not care?
Cycloptichorn
@masterk17,
masterk17 wrote:
Quote:Israel was put into a rough neighborhood that hates Jews! That is really the crux of it.
well ive got 2 Questions. Why does the neighberhood hates Israel ?!
and what do you mean by "Israel
was put into a rough neighborhood"???!
The neighborhood was under the Ottoman Turks prior to WWI. After WWI, Britain got to play Monopoly with Arab states, defining who was what. And we know that after WWII a large bulk of Jews were brought to Israel as displaced persons by the British. Do not blame the Nazis, since they were trying their hardest to not leave one Jew alive in Europe.
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:Did they not see this coming? Or just not care?
well Cyc. I think that they really didnt care, the best thing about Israel is bieng able to go to the farest place in order to acheive it's goals, no matter what, although I keep great respect to the jewish religion, the Israelian policy all over the past years been acting in a more terrerisom way, and then blame the others for their reactions, and one of the hings I wonder is how come the Israelian state didnt apply to the UN Security Counsil concerning the fact to Ceasefire.!!!!!!!!
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
masterk17 wrote:
Quote:Israel was put into a rough neighborhood that hates Jews! That is really the crux of it.
well ive got 2 Questions. Why does the neighberhood hates Israel ?!
and what do you mean by "Israel
was put into a rough neighborhood"???!
Yeah, what a laugh. Shouldn't that read 'decided to move into?'
What a bunch of morons. Did they not see this coming? Or just not care?
Cycloptichorn
Not "decided to move into." They were not on the Price Is Right. That was the only logical choice, since from the days of the Ottoman Empire, Zionists were buying land and establishing collective farms. A number of things coalesced around Israel being the choice. The British in the 19th century, even wanted to give Zionists Uganda. I think the rabbis did not want to bother Tarzan and Jane and Boy.
But, notice your style of posting, "Yeah, what a laugh." Do you consider that mature taunting, or just a moment of A2k glee?
@Foofie,
Quote:The neighborhood was under the Ottoman Turks prior to WWI. After WWI, Britain got to play Monopoly with Arab states, defining who was what. And we know that after WWII a large bulk of Jews were brought to Israel as displaced persons by the British. Do not blame the Nazis, since they were trying their hardest to not leave one Jew alive in Europe.
I don't want to sound offensive Foofie or Aggressive, but have you read the original Belphor's Promise before, I think you should, it was on 1919, Ill try psoting it later.
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
masterk17 wrote:
Quote:Israel was put into a rough neighborhood that hates Jews! That is really the crux of it.
well ive got 2 Questions. Why does the neighberhood hates Israel ?!
and what do you mean by "Israel
was put into a rough neighborhood"???!
Yeah, what a laugh. Shouldn't that read 'decided to move into?'
What a bunch of morons. Did they not see this coming? Or just not care?
Cycloptichorn
Not "decided to move into." They were not on the Price Is Right. That was the only logical choice, since from the days of the Ottoman Empire, Zionists were buying land and establishing collective farms. A number of things coalesced around Israel being the choice. The British in the 19th century, even wanted to give Zionists Uganda. I think the rabbis did not want to bother Tarzan and Jane and Boy.
But, notice your style of posting, "Yeah, what a laugh." Do you consider that mature taunting, or just a moment of A2k glee?
The laugh is at how twisted your worldview is, Foofie. Nobody forced the creation of Israel or it's location. The Jews wanted their ancient lands back. That's why it is located where it is and no other reason. This is what happens when you allow religion to run your policy; endless war and the moral depravity which supports it in the name of 'ending hostility.'
You should have taken Uganda; your people would be living happily and peacefully today and the rest of us wouldn't have to clean up your goddamn messes all the time.
Cycloptichorn
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Foofie wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
masterk17 wrote:
Quote:Israel was put into a rough neighborhood that hates Jews! That is really the crux of it.
well ive got 2 Questions. Why does the neighberhood hates Israel ?!
and what do you mean by "Israel
was put into a rough neighborhood"???!
Yeah, what a laugh. Shouldn't that read 'decided to move into?'
What a bunch of morons. Did they not see this coming? Or just not care?
Cycloptichorn
Not "decided to move into." They were not on the Price Is Right. That was the only logical choice, since from the days of the Ottoman Empire, Zionists were buying land and establishing collective farms. A number of things coalesced around Israel being the choice. The British in the 19th century, even wanted to give Zionists Uganda. I think the rabbis did not want to bother Tarzan and Jane and Boy.
But, notice your style of posting, "Yeah, what a laugh." Do you consider that mature taunting, or just a moment of A2k glee?
The laugh is at how twisted your worldview is, Foofie. Nobody forced the creation of Israel or it's location. The Jews wanted their ancient lands back. That's why it is located where it is and no other reason. This is what happens when you allow religion to run your policy; endless war and the moral depravity which supports it in the name of 'ending hostility.'
You should have taken Uganda; your people would be living happily and peacefully today and the rest of us wouldn't have to clean up your goddamn messes all the time.
Cycloptichorn
No. It is the Islamic religion that is based on "ALL this sand is ours." And no one is cleaning up any mess. No foreign military is involved. Israel is fighting its own conflict.
You say my worldview is twisted? Strange, Israel is a voting member of the UN. It does exist. It has neighbors that want it to go away. That is a twisted worldview?
I am not talking about you. Have you ever met anyone that you consider an anti-Semite? If yes, what in your opinion made them an anti-Semite? Remember, I am not talking about you, nor implying anything about you.
half the threads on the message board justify what's going on in gaza
people who don't really know each other with different points of view sniping at each other
ironic if you think about it
@djjd62,
Good observation, I believe.
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
No. It is the Islamic religion that is based on "ALL this sand is ours." And no one is cleaning up any mess. No foreign military is involved. Israel is fighting its own conflict.
Hahaha. Whose money and equipment do you think is being used for this war? Who do you think is paying for it? The US.
Quote:
You say my worldview is twisted? Strange, Israel is a voting member of the UN. It does exist. It has neighbors that want it to go away. That is a twisted worldview?
Yes, it is. Because you don't seem to be cognizant of the wrongs Israel has committed in the name of 'peace,' and you casually dismiss all that could have been done to avoid it...
Quote:
I am not talking about you. Have you ever met anyone that you consider an anti-Semite? If yes, what in your opinion made them an anti-Semite? Remember, I am not talking about you, nor implying anything about you.
I have met a few anti-semites in my time, white supremacists. They blame the Jews and the Blacks equally for all life's problems. I do not blame the Jews or the Blacks for any of my life's problems; however, I resent paying for the aggressive expansionism of Israel and the continued societal incarceration of the Palestinians. This has nothing to do with Jews as a religious group, and everything to do with Zionists as a political group.
Cycloptichorn
Both sides have honest grievances...both sides have legitimate rationales for the excesses both sides are committing.
In fact, and this probably puts me further into Foofie’s camp than I feel comfortable with, if you honestly cannot justify what is going on…you probably should not even be in the discussion, because you are blind.
The excesses of both sides can EASILY be justified!
**** the justifications; **** the reasons; **** the blame game.
How do we end it?
I just posted some comments in this regard in another thread. Take a look if you are interested:
http://able2know.org/topic/127846-1#post-3531242
@djjd62,
Quote:half the threads on the message board justify what's going on in gaza
people who don't really know each other with different points of view sniping at each other
ironic if you think about it
That is one good observation djjd, its a live example of what is going on around the world in a smaller scale, and yes its ironic, actually its symbolic.
@Foofie,
Foofie said:
Quote:No. It is the Islamic religion that is based on "ALL this sand is ours." And no one is cleaning up any mess. No foreign military is involved. Israel is fighting its own conflict
If you can just let me correct you Foofie, the Islamic methadology is all about You got my religion and I got mine, the Earth doesnt belong to anyone, its in gods property and people are just occupying it for the current time limit, and if you can trace islamic history and what the ignorant call "Jihad", you can know the truth, Please I recommend you please to be fair, and to be somehow open minded in order to reach the right point of view depending on what you really believe in, not any misunderstandings that can get through your way.
Even though I know I might be wrong, but please take these points in consideration.
Master k 17
@Frank Apisa,
Who cares about the 'justifications?' It's a meaningless question, anyone can attempt to justify what they are doing...
I think the eventual solution will involve the swallowing of pride, and that's why I don't hold out any hope for it whatsoever. As long as both sides are ran by the equivalent of our right-wing reactionaries here in the US, there will be no peace.
Cycloptichorn
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn Wrote
Quote:Who cares about the 'justifications?' It's a meaningless question, anyone can attempt to justify what they are doing...
Well Cyc. I dont want the justification of the Israelaians, Am just always wondering how do the people that support this war, justify whats going on, take
Foofie for an exmaple
Quote:Can some one please justify whats going on in Gaza strip???
No problem... The Palestinian people are assisting Israel eradicate an infestation of HAMAS terrorist.
These terrorist pest have been harassing Israel with rocket attacks for quite some time while the world looked the other way.
Israel finally got fed up and decided to clean house - they are justified in doing so.
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