Let's get rid of the Electoral College

@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

To bring this thread back on track, a few necessary reminders:

The electoral college isn't responsible for long lines at polling places;
The electoral college isn't responsible for the length or cost of presidential campaigns;
The electoral college isn't responsible for the fact that the presidential election is held in November;
The electoral college isn't responsible for the quality of presidential candidates (or lack thereof);
Getting rid of the electoral college won't address any of these issues.

Your points r superbly well taken.
U r absolutely right: none of that is related to the Electoral College.

Over the last 60 years, I don t remember EVER standing in line
for more than half an hour. Its usually about 5 or 10 minutes.
I have freely donated to anti-socialistic candidates of my choice.
I don't begrude them my contributions; that 's MY private business; no one else 's.
What campaigns cost the parties involved is THEIR business.
It costs nothing to the critics of the electoral college, nor to ANY aliens.
There is no logical reason for any citizen
to object to the length of presidential campaigns.
What aliens think does not matter.

I am glad that our traditions of holding elections
on Tuesdays in November will remain intact.
I like it that way.

David

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Get control over your emotions, Spendius. You are looking foolish here for no good reason.

C'mon, cool down. Stop taking yourself and this discussion so seriously. Neither is

Aaw gee Frank. You really shouldn't be so concerned about me. I'm not worth it. I'm touched though. I really am. I mean to say-- another chap being solicitous about my emotional state is not something I am used to. You are ruining my reputation as an emotionless, cold blooded, cynical, shagged out old has-been who has eschewed all pity, sentiment and sympathy. I have had it questioned whether I even have any blood. But I can assure you that I have. I've seen it on those occasions when my epidermal envelope has been punctured, and it is red.

I mention that because the assertion has been made that I have no blood but that is, as everyone knows, one of those assertions, like, say, that I have no control over my emotions, or that I look foolish and in the event I do look foolish, as I sometimes have in certain positions I have had to take up, it is for no good reason, or that I'm easily overexcited and need to cool down and that I take myself and this discussion too seriously, and which one can easily dismiss as not being worth a sparrow fart in a tempest as such assertions can be made up at anytime by anybody stupid enough, as originality is rarely a consideration, to suit an almost infinite number of situations and thus leave the perp feeling smug and superior as he basks in the reassurance he has provided himself with by tapping on a few keys which he has managed to learn to use to express the limited vocabulary he is unfortunately saddled with due to no fault of his own.

I'm sorry that sentence went on a bit old chap but the flow of my thoughts had not much room for anything other than short pauses.

Are you grooming me? Wishing to have a beer with me and us shooting the breeze together had me squirming in my seat but I thought it was possibly just a passing fancy and not something I should read too much into. But now this emotional outburst!

But me--serious. How can a Thorstein Veblen fan be serious? And a Frank Harris fan? And a Rider Haggard fan? And Rabelais. And Proust. Are you joking? Monte Python was serious. How can somebody who is frightened of the only women worth being interested in be serious?

I constantly have to explain to business people I know that their role is to rip the linings out of their customer's pockets and handbags because that is what their customers are trying to do to their's. And that all the "providing a first class service at a competitive price" is a load of bullshit.

I think you have a bit of a problem with taking yourself seriously Frank. Golfers are always serious people. And critics of their President. You can't get more serious about yourself than imagining you have anything significant to say about a President let alone criticising him.

And how can you think being serious is a problem or a weakness or whatever you fancy asserting it is unless you are familiar with it from regular practice. That's the basic idea of projection you see. Serial projectors are easily identified by them accusing others of projecting.

It's all too easy. The manifestation of a lazy, incoherent and dim-witted mind.

If you were better read you would know that a username like mine signals a pathologically un-serious person. One who can't be bothered with such narcissistic practices as accusing others of projecting and taking themselves seriously as a method of distancing himself from those abject behavioral reflexes and avoiding responding to what has been said whether "measured" or not? One might wonder why he goes to so much trouble to be continuously denying these pitiful malfeasances, which are derived from too much Momism in the formatives, with such obvious obsessive emphasis. If a man talks of his honesty and integrity it's best to hide the family silver. And any daughters he might be unlucky enough to have brought into this wonderful world of wall-to-wall shite.

Why do you think patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings.

Have you never considered the Manichean principle of the universe in terms of opposition for its own sake and as an end in itself. The game of yinyangerie is not for the uxorious types such as you have given evidence of being.

When you **** on somebody Frank you are supposed to use large dollops rather than little dribbles of watery squits. I wouldn't mind betting that you have found your opponents ball for him in the rough. You should step on it and press it into the ground. Without drawing attention to it of course. Just in case he finds it himself.

Do you think the eradication of evil by Pavlovian, scientific conditioning is a greater or lesser evil than an acceptance of the free will to choose evil.

When have I lectured others on vitriol in their posts. Drawing certain obvious conclusions from it or castigating the quality of it is not lecturing. Provide A2Kers with an example. They might not be prepared to take your facile word for it you know? They are more likely to laugh behind your back at your innocence.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I am completely willing to discuss and debate anything in a reasonable way. If you honestly think Spendius has been reasonable...then something is seriously wrong with your ability to think.

That's a "two-step" assertion. There's the "one-step" assertion for when ideas have run out and all the words were got off pat at school.

There's also the "reverse" assertion like saying somebody doesn't understand evolution theory as a way of suggesting that the writer does. As he would need to in order to validate his assertion.

If I had been reasonable, which I had, then there is something seriously wrong with your ability to think if you think there's something seriously wrong with Fountie's ability to think for thinking me reasonable. Which, as I said earlier, I had been.

That's perfectly reasonable and a fair example. You can assert it isn't if you wish but you grant me permission, unless your holding a Colt 44, to assert that it is. Then I grant you permission to reassert and if you do, having failed to see how absurd this is getting, I can then, under the principles of etiquette as passed down over many generations, re-reassert and you can re-re-reassert and so on and so forth. I think divorce lawyers are experts in teaching their clients how to do this.

How many times have I seen a couple decide to an amicable split and go to consult their lawyer and end up with an equal share of about 20% of what they were worth at the start?

The rest of the assertions can be viewed in the light of the above.

Quote:

but some of the small-minded nonsense can wear thin.

Good.

You seem to think that people who deserve to be poked and dug at and jabbed and insulted should be spared from such correctives. It is not a fault to do things like that when they are deserved. It wasn't when I was growing up. Are you arguing for never-ending ubiquitous assholery because that is what you would get if those who deserve to be poked and dug at and jabbed and insulted were given relief. You need to focus on "deserve". Show that what you allege I did was undeserved. Without doing that you're tossing your ego off. Or recommending assholery.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

What aliens think does not matter.

That is an isolationist statement Dave. The President, the President Elect and the next Secretary of State, whose confirmation hearings I have been watching in fascinated terror all afternoon, have all gone to some length to deny that sentiment. It is anathema to American foreign policy which does not do Fortress America. If you seek a real recession try that.

What "aliens" perceive is the onset of a sort of paralysis which begins when the famed 100 days comes to an end, with Gitmo still up and running, and builds up to a climax over an 18 month period with the whole establishment of movers and shakers concentrating on positioning themselves for the immediate future, and ends in those who vote enjoying a rare bout of mass hysteria. In the latter stages "aliens" find it difficult to do business.

Is that what you want?

Plenty of people are saying that Israel has taken advantage of the paralysis.

Which is not to say that the paralysis might not be ten times worse if another method was employed.

I used to think our lot were a bit twotty but this afternoon has taught me they might not be as bad as I thought. Talk about empty generalisations. The Artic took about 90 seconds. Russian gas supplies maybe 2 minutes. And everybody knows what the outcome will be anyway. Do you remember that place where they kept the records in that thing Burroughs wrote. The record will be the last trace of the hearing I should imagine once it's done and dusted.

But "aliens" do matter. They can't be put on Ignore as you imply. Or at least not without some difficulty. They might think, indeed are entitled to think, that "non-aliens" don't matter.

0 Replies

Om sig was very rude. I do matter. Frank has a lot of anger. In the face of all this I might become anti American. But I will always love Mickey Mouse.

2 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

I don't see any reason that it being in the hands of the urban centers is,
itself, a problem. There's no evidence that the rural minority has
any better judgment in these matters than the urban majority.

That the majority choice would override the minority choice
is unfortunate for the minority but that's how it's supposed to work.

Do u see any reason to believe that the smaller states will be
invested with a sufficient impetus to reduce their political effectiveness
as to be moven to have their US Senators vote to achieve a 2/3 majority
for an amendment to the Supreme Law of the Land
and if that is accomplished,
then so many of the legislatures of those states
whose political power 'd be curtailed, enfeebled and emasculated
woud vote against the political interests of their own citizens
as to reach a 3/4 majority of all of the states ?

Then during the re-election campaigns of those politicians
who voted affirmatively to deplete the political vitality
of their own constituents, thay will justify their votes
by telling the electorate that as sad as it was to do that,
it was MORE IMPORTANT for them to serve the interests
of the citizens of OTHER states, at the expense of their own
and that thay believed that this was the reason that thay were elected ?

Do u think that will HAPPEN ?

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

I thought it had happened. It happens here. Variations in infant mortality for example. The Scottish Nationalist Party campaigns on the basis that Scotland is in the very position you mention. As did the parties in Eastern Europe once the will to control them weakened.

We have a union you know. And wide regional variations which persist.

It isn't a question of interests. They are limitless. It is a question of a balance of interests. Not the same thing. It isn't a simple matter I'm afraid.

0 Replies

@spendius,

Spendius spewed:

Quote:

Aaw gee Frank. You really shouldn't be so concerned about me. I'm not worth it. I'm touched though. I really am. I mean to say-- another chap being solicitous about my emotional state is not something I am used to. You are ruining my reputation as an emotionless, cold blooded, cynical, shagged out old has-been who has eschewed all pity, sentiment and sympathy. I have had it questioned whether I even have any blood. But I can assure you that I have. I've seen it on those occasions when my epidermal envelope has been punctured, and it is red.

I mention that because the assertion has been made that I have no blood but that is, as everyone knows, one of those assertions, like, say, that I have no control over my emotions, or that I look foolish and in the event I do look foolish, as I sometimes have in certain positions I have had to take up, it is for no good reason, or that I'm easily overexcited and need to cool down and that I take myself and this discussion too seriously, and which one can easily dismiss as not being worth a sparrow fart in a tempest as such assertions can be made up at anytime by anybody stupid enough, as originality is rarely a consideration, to suit an almost infinite number of situations and thus leave the perp feeling smug and superior as he basks in the reassurance he has provided himself with by tapping on a few keys which he has managed to learn to use to express the limited vocabulary he is unfortunately saddled with due to no fault of his own.

I'm sorry that sentence went on a bit old chap but the flow of my thoughts had not much room for anything other than short pauses.

Are you grooming me? Wishing to have a beer with me and us shooting the breeze together had me squirming in my seat but I thought it was possibly just a passing fancy and not something I should read too much into. But now this emotional outburst!

But me--serious. How can a Thorstein Veblen fan be serious? And a Frank Harris fan? And a Rider Haggard fan? And Rabelais. And Proust. Are you joking? Monte Python was serious. How can somebody who is frightened of the only women worth being interested in be serious?

I constantly have to explain to business people I know that their role is to rip the linings out of their customer's pockets and handbags because that is what their customers are trying to do to their's. And that all the "providing a first class service at a competitive price" is a load of bullshit.

I think you have a bit of a problem with taking yourself seriously Frank. Golfers are always serious people. And critics of their President. You can't get more serious about yourself than imagining you have anything significant to say about a President let alone criticising him.

And how can you think being serious is a problem or a weakness or whatever you fancy asserting it is unless you are familiar with it from regular practice. That's the basic idea of projection you see. Serial projectors are easily identified by them accusing others of projecting.

It's all too easy. The manifestation of a lazy, incoherent and dim-witted mind.

If you were better read you would know that a username like mine signals a pathologically un-serious person. One who can't be bothered with such narcissistic practices as accusing others of projecting and taking themselves seriously as a method of distancing himself from those abject behavioral reflexes and avoiding responding to what has been said whether "measured" or not? One might wonder why he goes to so much trouble to be continuously denying these pitiful malfeasances, which are derived from too much Momism in the formatives, with such obvious obsessive emphasis. If a man talks of his honesty and integrity it's best to hide the family silver. And any daughters he might be unlucky enough to have brought into this wonderful world of wall-to-wall shite.

Why do you think patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings.

Have you never considered the Manichean principle of the universe in terms of opposition for its own sake and as an end in itself. The game of yinyangerie is not for the uxorious types such as you have given evidence of being.

When you **** on somebody Frank you are supposed to use large dollops rather than little dribbles of watery squits. I wouldn't mind betting that you have found your opponents ball for him in the rough. You should step on it and press it into the ground. Without drawing attention to it of course. Just in case he finds it himself.

Do you think the eradication of evil by Pavlovian, scientific conditioning is a greater or lesser evil than an acceptance of the free will to choose evil.

When have I lectured others on vitriol in their posts. Drawing certain obvious conclusions from it or castigating the quality of it is not lecturing. Provide A2Kers with an example. They might not be prepared to take your facile word for it you know? They are more likely to laugh behind your back at your innocence.

Oh yeah...you sound like someone who has never been angry in his life; like someone who is "a pathologically un-serious person."

NOT!

C’mon"get real for a while.

Why so much anger in you? Are the women actually giving you that much trouble! You ought really not let them get to you so much that the rest of your life ends up like it seems to be.

Quote:

You are ruining my reputation as an emotionless, cold blooded, cynical, shagged out old has-been who has eschewed all pity, sentiment and sympathy. I have had it questioned whether I even have any blood.

Jeez, you left out all the really good ones I’ve heard people say to you. And you left out one I’d probably charge if I were into the kind of nonsense in which you constantly engage"hypocrite.

You are one of those underhanded rude people who give others lectures on manners. Very hypocritical of you.

Hey, like I said, being a hypocrite doesn’t necessarily mean you are a bad person.

No matter what, I love ya, Buddy.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

With his fingers crossed, Frank wrote:

No matter what, I love ya, Buddy.

You'll go to Hell for lyin', too . . .

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Oh yeah...you sound like someone who has never been angry in his life; like someone who is "a pathologically un-serious person."

I know. It affect my style as you can see. My post you quoted couldn't be written by an angry person who takes himself seriously. Not a chance.

I'll get real--Show me someone who isn't a hypocrite and I'll go out and say a prayer for him.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Spendius wrote:

Quote:

I know. It affect my style as you can see. My post you quoted couldn't be written by an angry person who takes himself seriously. Not a chance.

I am pretty sure this is known as "begging the question" or sometimes "petitio principii."

You gotta do better than this, Spendius...or you should stick to drinking.

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Hey Set.

You are right, of course,

But I really am feeling very brotherly these days. Really. I don't feel any anger at the guy, I just feel like engaging him on some of his bullshit.

But thanks for the warning.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

I'm amazed how much you talk without ever once answering a point or being on topic. I assume you think it makes you look big.
Be assured you don't

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I just feel like engaging him on some of his bullshit.

Feeling like it is not enough Frank.

Give me an example of "bullshit" in that longish post you quoted earlier. The most obvious example is best. Then engage with it.

0 Replies

@Fountofwisdom,

Fount...this thing has been off topic for so long...its not even funny. And you have been a regular contributor to derailing it.

At some point, after 26 pages of posts...everyone knows that all the legitimate arguments have been made...and normally it degenerates into what is going on here.

You and Spendius have been doing your level best to agitate and roil participants here...and I am being decent enough to play your game for a while.

Now you are complaining.

Some people you just cannot satisfy.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

That's women Frank. That's why they frighten me.

I always keep in mind Bill Greenwell's famous line--"the last rasping gasp of the mantis's groom."

Still- if you believe your own assertions and can shout them loud enough it is fairly safe. Up to a point.

0 Replies

I think it's fairly clear that neither FOW nor Spendius are really being serious here. Alternatively one or the other could really be as stupid and deliberately offensive as they appear. More likely it is a game: OK by me, but not one I wish to play.

I think that is good advice for all their critics here.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

There is absolutely no point in debating with Americans. They have no idea what logic,argument, debate or civilised behaviour is.
They have the political system they deserve. It is stupid, and thus reflects the populace.

1 Reply

@Fountofwisdom,

Fountofwisdom wrote:

There is absolutely no point in debating with Americans. They have no idea what logic,argument, debate or civilised behaviour is.
They have the political system they deserve. It is stupid, and thus reflects the populace.

QED

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Thanks, George.

You were one of the people we discussed last night over dinner. (So was Spendius and Fount!)

The pictures of the people doing this discussing can be found here:

http://able2know.org/topic/127889-1

(Haven't gotten the hang of embedding a link here yet!)

All three of you faired very nicely in the discussion. When we have New York meets...no acrimony can intrude in the festivities, and even when we discuss people, we only talk about their good points (or as close as we can get.)

Hope you all stop by to see the pix.

2 Replies

Let's get rid of the Electoral College

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