64
   

You can go back in time and prevent a great catastrophe. Which one would you prevent?

 
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 08:16 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I 'd prevent Obamacare from passing either house of Congress.


Yes it is a great catastrophe indeed to the bottom profit line of the health insurance companies that the US had now join the rest of the advance world and will be even more so when we move to Medicare(single payer) for everyone and stop spending double what the rest of the world does for far less care.

Hell it would be ashame if our ranking in average life span and infants death rates would increase to at least the average of Europe as a whole.

0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 07:40 am
@spendius,
Hey, a bunch of uptight guys LIED on Eve.
0 Replies
 
noinipo
 
  3  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 08:08 am
@Merry Andrew,
After WW2, if the Jews would have settled in another place, it could have prevented 60 years of suffering.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 10:21 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Sorry OmSigDavid ending slavery would not had stop Obama
from being born here. He would had ended up with another woman as his wife perhaps a nice blond.
If u have any evidence of that, please tell us what it is.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 08:59 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
If u have any evidence of that, please tell us what it is.


Proof of who Obama might had ended up marrying in an alternate universe?

As soon as B. Piper Crosstime police allow this universe access to other alternate universes I will give you the proof. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 09:04 pm
You know I am more and more coming to the conclusion that a good turning point would had been to fixed the butterfly ballots in Florida and therefore stopping the second Bush from becoming President.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 09:44 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
If you mean Obama being born here his father coming to the US to study on it, face have nothing to do with the US history of slavery.

Given Obama skills as already shown as a politician there also seem little question he would had rose to power in the US no matter what the slavery history had been.

Once more, however proof will have to wait until the B. Piper Cross Time Police grant us access to cross-universes travel.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 02:26 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
If you mean Obama being born here
Let the record indicate that I don 't know whether obama was born here or not.





David
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 02:52 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Let the record indicate that I don 't know whether obama was born here or not.


Of course not as beside the normal legal paperwork for that time period the fact that there exist a birth announcement in the local newspaper dating back to 1961 only mean that evil time travelers are part of the cover up.

Come on there is crazy and real crazy and this is pushing the envelope my friend.
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 02:59 am
@OmSigDAVID,
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Born in the U.S.A.
August 21, 2008
Updated: November 1, 2008
The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
Summary
In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.

Analysis
Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even been called in at home in the middle of the night.

Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy." . . . Will this be enough to quiet the doubters? "I hope so," Fukino said. "We need to get some work done."

Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.

Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?

Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site?

Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it.

Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?

Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.


Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:

The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.
It isn't signed.
No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.

In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.
The certificate number is blacked out.
The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.
The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."

Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.



The Obama birth certificate, held by FactCheck writer Joe Miller



Alvin T. Onaka's signature stamp



The raised seal



Blowup of text

You can click on the photos to get full-size versions, which haven't been edited in any way, except that some have been rotated 90 degrees for viewing purposes.

The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.

The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.

We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.



Blowup of certificate number
Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.


We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."


We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."

In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:


Obama's birth announcement


The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.

Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.

Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."

–by Jess Henig, with Joe Miller
Sources
United States Department of State. "Application for a U.S. Passport." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

State of Hawaii Department of Health. "Request for Certified Copy of Birth Record." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

Hollyfield, Amy. "Obama's Birth Certificate: Final Chapter." Politifact.com. 27 Jun. 2008.

The Associated Press. "State declares Obama birth certificate genuine" 31 Oct 2008.

Nakaso, Dan. "Obama's certificate of birth OK, state says; Health director issues voucher in response to 'ridiculous' barrage" Honolulu Advertiser 1 Nov 2008.



Copyright © 2003 - 2010, Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 03:01 am
@OmSigDAVID,
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php

OBAMA'S BIRTH ANNOUNCEMENTS

Email This Page To A Friend

What Really Happened




Hawaii has two major newspapers, the Honolulu Advertiser and the Star Bulletin.
BOTH newspapers include birth announcements, and BOTH newspapers record the August 4th, 1961 birth of Barack Obama.


The Honolulu Advertiser The Star Bulletin

Now, McCain's (Rove's) useful idiots will scream that these are fakes, that they are part of this grand conspiracy by Obama's parents to smuggle a newborn baby from Kenya into Honolulu to obtain a birth certificate and birth announcements. But what is lacking in their story is MOTIVE. It's not like Obama's parents knew back then that Barack would go into politics, and need to be "Natural Born." Why bother with such a deception, which includes a very risky flight half way around the world with a newborn baby. Under US law, Barack is a US citizen no matter where he was born because his mother was an American citizen, born and raised in Kansas. The question of location is only relevant to the "Natural Born" requirement to be President. Barack's parents could not have known at the time of his birth that this would be an issue.

And note that in one of the announcements, a residential address is given. Does that sound like the parents just arrived from Kenya? Check it out for yourself on Google Earth; it is a house, not an apartment or motel.

At the end, this is just plain old fashioned harassment by McCain's people. Under US law the burden of proof rests with the accuser. But the people pushing this citizenship nonsense keep inventing new allegations and demanding Obama prove them wrong. Folks, that approach is the Napoleonic code of justice, which died with, well, Napoleon. Obama does not have to respond to each and every mud-sling that Berg and his people can come up with.

Worse, this whole citizenship issue distracts from the real issues of the economy and the war. Obviously, McCain's people are desperate to find anything that will take voters' minds off of the economy and war and focus it someplace else, and this tabloidism is intended as such bait.

The election is less than a week away. Stay focused. Stay on target. The economy is nearly dead from 8 years of GOP leadership and pointless wars. Don;t get suckered into another 4 years of the same by a little mud-slinging.



0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 11:17 am
@BillRM,
David wrote:
Let the record indicate that I don 't know whether obama was born here or not.
BillRM wrote:
Of course not as beside the normal legal paperwork for that time period the fact that there exist a birth announcement in the local newspaper dating back to 1961 only mean that evil time travelers are part of the cover up.

Come on there is crazy and real crazy and this is pushing the envelope my friend.
I have not ruled out the possibility
that u r right; maybe, I dunno.

I have no opinion on that point.
Fortunately for me, I don 't need that information.





David
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 01:07 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I have not ruled out the possibility
that u r right; maybe, I dunno.

I have no opinion on that point.
Fortunately for me, I don 't need that information.


Shame on you as you are being very very dishonest in my opinion as you know that there is zero reason for anyone to question his birthplace anymore then your or mine or the other 300 millions US citizens.

You bring up the subject then run away when challenge with facts by now claiming no opinion!

What amused me greatly is his opponent in the election was not in fact born in a US state unlike Obama but in the Panama Canal Zone and if he had arrived a mile or so from where he did then he would not had been allow to run for president.

Strange that the Democrats did not come up with a story as how his mother had gone into labor and gave birth to McCain outside the Canal Zone and it all a cover up.

A story like that would be more likely to be true then the one concerning Obama in any case.

Guess Democrats are more honest and honorable then Republicans overall.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 03:30 pm
@BillRM,
David wrote:
I have not ruled out the possibility
that u r right; maybe, I dunno.

I have no opinion on that point.
Fortunately for me, I don 't need that information.
BillRM wrote:
Shame on you as you are being very very dishonest in my opinion
No, Bill; that is not true. I dunno where he was born, but wherever it was,
I am 1OO% confident that I do not know where it was.
That is not dishonest in any degree.





BillRM wrote:
as you know that there is zero reason for anyone to question his birthplace
No, Bill; I do not know that.
Possibly, there is good reason for questioning that I don't know about.
I have not claimed to be well informed on this point.





BillRM wrote:
anymore then your or mine or the other 300 millions US citizens.
Where were u born, Bill ?





BillRM wrote:
You bring up the subject then run away
U shoud not accuse me of doing that, Bill.
I do not believe that I brought up that subject
(not in this thread anyway, so far as I remember).



BillRM wrote:
when challenge with facts by now claiming no opinion!
It 'd be rong of me to claim that I KNOW something that, in truth, I know not.
That 'd be dishonest. I did not see him get born.









BillRM wrote:
What amused me greatly is his opponent in the election was not in fact born in a US state unlike Obama but in the Panama Canal Zone and if he had arrived a mile or so from where he did then he would not had been allow to run for president.
I wish that he had been disqualified; he 's not a conservative,
but the Canal Zone was American territory, until Jimmy Carter gave it away.
I think he 's nuts.
I voted for Sarah Palin for VP.

I wish that Dr. Ron Paul had been elected President.





David
Ceili
 
  3  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 04:04 pm
The invention of guns.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 04:09 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
You are being very damn dishonest and once more do you have any reason at all to question his birth place then anyone else with a legal state birth record and announcement in the local papers of his birth??????????
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 05:25 pm
@BillRM,
Bill, u FALSELY accuse me of dishonesty. I am innocent & honest.

I don 't know whether there is reason to challenge obama as to his birth.
I am not in possession of that information.





David
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 05:43 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
The information was given to you with links by me and also exist as a matter of public records available to anyone with to search engines toolbar.

So to stated you do not know is being very dishonest in my opinion.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 07:12 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
The information was given to you with links by me and also exist as a matter of public records available to anyone with to search engines toolbar.

So to stated you do not know is being very dishonest in my opinion.
If I read a record (public or private) then I know what it SAYS.
I do not know whether it is true.





David
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 08:23 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
If I read a record (public or private) then I know what it SAYS.
I do not know whether it is true.


It is not a normal comment to state you do not know if it true where a public figure at the level of a US president was born.

If I had stated for example that George Washington was born in the state of Virgins somehow I can not see you posting that you have a question concerning his birthplace or that if you did have such a question it would not had been put to rest at once by the postings of links to pubic records on Washington Birthplace.

This Obama silliness concerning his birth is an insult to everyone intelligent that you seem to wish to support to the degree you can do so without seeming to be a complete fool.

Shame on you………
 

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