California Voters Approve Gay-Marriage Ban

LW, great to see you.
The Dys.

Pout all you like, it's true. We are approaching the end of this. Good riddance.

A
R
T

Your brilliance amazes this is true, not everyone can figure out that with each stop towards our destination we get closer. What would we ever do with out your assistance dear professor...... Thank you for illuminating the way for us!

A
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There there

Excellent news today! A victory for all Americans, whether they realize it or not.

Cycloptichorn

indeed.

Educating you seems like a lost cause, but here goes....When everyone knows up front that this case is going to SCOTUS no matter what the intermediate courts do then the rulings of the intermediate courts don't make much difference unless they influence SCOTUS, which we of course don't know yet it they will. Yes, I would have preferred this court to rule in what I consider to the the right and just way, but it does not matter enough that they got it wrong for me to care much.

Are we clear?

You don't even know if the SC will agree to see the case at all. So yes, it is a victory for pro-equality supporters.

Cycloptichorn

We'll find out how long it lasts. I can see the decision surviving the 9th-circuit appeals court. But if it does go all the way, the Supreme Court will end up killing it with a 5:4 decision. I hope I'm wrong about the latter part.

how do you get to if?? The case will certainly get petitioned to SCOTUS, and I see no way that they can avoid hearing it.

well they could stick there fingers in their ears and sing la la la until the case is over

probably the best way to decide any court case in my opinion

Why not? They avoided hearing Second-Amendment cases for 70 years, even though such cases did come up in the district and appeals courts. Why can't they avoid hearing gay-marriage cases if they want to? I'm not saying they want to, but they could if they did. Hence the "if".

Very happy about this! Boies and Olson are a good team, I'm impressed with them.

This conflict between the right of self determination through majority rule and everyone who does not like what the majority decides claiming that they are excluded from majority rule because they have opted to claim victim status has reached a point where SCOTUS can not avoid taking a position. Even if SCOTUS only nibbles around the edges by issuing tight rulings they have to start defining this boundary. Then we will need to see if the people will tolerate what SCOTUS decides.

Conservatives pass a law in a legislature or in a referendum. Liberals overturn it in court on the grounds that it violates the Constitution. However, it's never something that's actually in the Constitution. It's always some elastic clause that they can simply use as a blunt weapon to deny the people the right of self-determination.

The people's vote is now meaningless, because if a law is passed that the liberals don't like, they will just take it to court until some liberal judge rules that it violates some clause of the Constitition like "promote the general welfare." Things are so much easier when you don't need the electorate on your side to pass laws. Go ahead, liberals. I could use a laugh. I dare you to tell me exactly what statement in the Constitution this law violated.

Hawkeye, you're claiming victim status yourself. Your particular brand of victimhood is that you are being tyrannized by the majority (AKA the collective).

If you say "well I don't like it and I have a right to speak up and try to change things," that's exactly my take on what gay marriage proponents are doing.

There ARE wrongs in the world. Demonizing victims doesn't remove this reality. Why not try to right wrongs when we can?

the question is are people now so conditioned to being run over by self proclaimed victims that they will no longer stick up for themselves? I think that no power play works forever, that at some point the victim power play will lose effectiveness, but I have no idea if we are about there yet. I see people like me who are sick of those who are willing to take the victim identity being allowed to slough off their personal responsibilities wholesale, turning into dead weight that requires pampering and constant attention from the rest of us, and the crashing of the economy might help to speed the end of this power play, but I see no proof either way yet.

When a straight majority votes that members of the gay minority can't marry each other, how is that self-determination? I would call it a denial of self-determination.

Yep. Victimized by the victims. You poor victim. I feel very sorry for you.

The victims are not the problem, those who refuse to stand up to and make demands from the victims are the problem. Once being a victim no longer works to get what is wanted people will stop doing it.