No wonder Joe the Plumber Is worried About Taxes

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

you seem to believe that the tax code is "fair" for the wealthier earners. That is not true. IT IS LOADED IN THEIR FAVOR.
The tax code, after a certain level of participation, becomes more of a "wealth management code".

Levelling the playing field is what many of the DEMS (including Obamas advisors) have always proposed. The GOP has always played to their bases naivete and ignorance of the very tax codes they wish to protect.

That's interesting, because I perceive the Democratic Party's and Obama's platform not as advocating a level playing field, which I actually would support, but, rather, as advocating soaking the rich.

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

Joe Nation wrote:

Flat taxes, wherein the oil baron pays the same rate as a widow with four children, and Spending Freezes (an idea I thought was dead, but was resurrected by McCain in this last debate) are the kind of simple-solutions ideas favored by people who haven't thought things through.

Joe(who are the very poor? Those making less than $250,000? $20,000? $52,134.18?)Nation

Interesting, but you give no specifics whatever. If everyone paid the same percentage of his income, with virtually no loopholes, then the rich would pay much, much more in dollars than the poor. Strikes me as fair, and, believe me, I'm not rich. Why should success be treated as a crime?

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Seems, you are not able to view tacts s from many sides Brandon. I merely suggested that you familiarize yourself more with the tax code and perhaps your incorrect assessment would be corrected based upon evidence. .

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joe the plumber?

i trust this guy's judgement more;

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2003/11/11/obituaries/11art.jpg

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@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

Joe Nation wrote:

Flat taxes, wherein the oil baron pays the same rate as a widow with four children, and Spending Freezes (an idea I thought was dead, but was resurrected by McCain in this last debate) are the kind of simple-solutions ideas favored by people who haven't thought things through.

Joe(who are the very poor? Those making less than $250,000? $20,000? $52,134.18?)Nation

Interesting, but you give no specifics whatever. If everyone paid the same percentage of his income, with virtually no loopholes, then the rich would pay much, much more in dollars than the poor. Strikes me as fair, and, believe me, I'm not rich. Why should success be treated as a crime?

Success isn't treated as a crime.

Not outside of your hyperbolic universe, anyways. Those who are rich in America will still be rich under Obama.

Jeez

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Quote:

Interesting, but you give no specifics whatever. If everyone paid the same percentage of his income, with virtually no loopholes, then the rich would pay much, much more in dollars than the poor. Strikes me as fair, and, believe me, I'm not rich.

I've given no specifics? Where oh where are your specifics? You have a percentage in mind? Will it be the same one used in Estonia, Latvia, Russia, the Czech Republic? Albania? Hmmm?

Joe(not the plumber)Nation

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@Joe Nation,

You guys are trying to convince someone who fails to understand all the evidence out there to see the facts and figures. Why feed this troll?

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Seems, you are not able to view tacts s from many sides Brandon. I merely suggested that you familiarize yourself more with the tax code and perhaps your incorrect assessment would be corrected based upon evidence. .

Apart from discussion of my personal deficiencies, what's wrong with the idea I discussed?

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Joe Nation wrote:

Flat taxes, wherein the oil baron pays the same rate as a widow with four children, and Spending Freezes (an idea I thought was dead, but was resurrected by McCain in this last debate) are the kind of simple-solutions ideas favored by people who haven't thought things through.

Joe(who are the very poor? Those making less than $250,000? $20,000? $52,134.18?)Nation

Interesting, but you give no specifics whatever. If everyone paid the same percentage of his income, with virtually no loopholes, then the rich would pay much, much more in dollars than the poor. Strikes me as fair, and, believe me, I'm not rich. Why should success be treated as a crime?

Success isn't treated as a crime.

Not outside of your hyperbolic universe, anyways. Those who are rich in America will still be rich under Obama.

Jeez

Cycloptichorn

Then why does he propose lowering taxes for the middle class, but raising them for the rich?

2 Replies

@Joe Nation,

Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:
Interesting, but you give no specifics whatever. If everyone paid the same percentage of his income, with virtually no loopholes, then the rich would pay much, much more in dollars than the poor. Strikes me as fair, and, believe me, I'm not rich.

I've given no specifics? Where oh where are your specifics? You have a percentage in mind? Will it be the same one used in Estonia, Latvia, Russia, the Czech Republic? Albania? Hmmm?

Joe(not the plumber)Nation

Do I have to drag support for your own statements out of you? You said that flat taxes are are "the kind of simple-solutions ideas favored by people who haven't thought things through." I'm merely asking what is wrong with the idea.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You guys are trying to convince someone who fails to understand all the evidence out there to see the facts and figures. Why feed this troll?

Translation: as usual, you have neither the ability nor the inclination to defend your own opinions. You seem to want to be able to function solely on the basis of ad hominems and discussions about Palin's daughter's sex life. Better to discuss the issues and to be able to say a word or two to defend positions you post.

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Joe Nation wrote:

Flat taxes, wherein the oil baron pays the same rate as a widow with four children, and Spending Freezes (an idea I thought was dead, but was resurrected by McCain in this last debate) are the kind of simple-solutions ideas favored by people who haven't thought things through.

Joe(who are the very poor? Those making less than $250,000? $20,000? $52,134.18?)Nation

Interesting, but you give no specifics whatever. If everyone paid the same percentage of his income, with virtually no loopholes, then the rich would pay much, much more in dollars than the poor. Strikes me as fair, and, believe me, I'm not rich. Why should success be treated as a crime?

Success isn't treated as a crime.

Not outside of your hyperbolic universe, anyways. Those who are rich in America will still be rich under Obama.

Jeez

Cycloptichorn

Then why does he propose lowering taxes for the middle class, but raising them for the rich?

Because we are heavily in deficit and debt, and the rich can afford to give up more than they currently are without materially affecting their status. The middle class, not so much.

Now, you know I don't support lowering taxes for anyone at this time; the middle-class tax cuts Obama proposes are a disagreement I have with him.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Tell you what, Brandon Bubbie, you tell me what the PERCENTAGE Flat Tax you favor that will balance the Federal Budget as it is presently constructed and then we will talk.

Joe(hint: it raises your taxes)Nation

2 Replies

@Brandon9000,

Show me where I have discussed "Palin's daughter's sex life?" PLEASE, you wingnut.

I have discussed the issues, ad nauseum. It's not my fault you don't comprehend English or my posts.

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

i'm certainly NOT a conservative , but could support a flat-tax system .
i realize that my proposal wouldn't fly with the rich or business , but here it is anyway :

- any and all income below $250,000 (per family) would be taxfree .
- adequate - meaning reliable - health services for all citizens and landed immigrants would be paid by the taxes raised .
- any and all income above $250,000 per family and all business income would be taxed at a standard flat tax rate a/t the budget requirements of the country (canada , in my case) .
- there would be NO exemptions of any kind .
- all residents/citizens earning more than $250,000 and all corporations (domestic and foreign) doing business in the country would be subject to the flat tax .

could anything be fairer than that ???

in the late '50 the canadian government appointed justice porter and his commission to come up wit a "fair and flat" tax .
the solution they came up with was similar to what i posted above . the income tax calculation would have fitted on the back of a postcard - really simple .
as soon as word leaked out about the proposal , the "dreck" hit the fan ... ...
gazillions of corporations , rich citizens and TAX LAWYERS <grin> sent letters to the minister of revenue , the prime minister ... ... because they represented "a special" case and must therefor be given special consideration ... ...

those objecting realized that this was NOT the flat tax they were looking for
<GRIN> - they wanted a tax where THEY would pay less tax !

btw justice porter said that it didn't matter how you made your money : work , investment , theft , inheretance , the racetrack - ANY inflow of money was income .

the proposal went nowhere in a hurry !

brandon : would you favour that kind of "no exemptions" flat-tax ?
hbg

1 Reply

@hamburger,

hbg, Families earning less than $250,000 will not be "tax free." Their taxes will be reduced, because they will not have federal income tax, but state income taxes will still exist as well as sales taxes and other "hidden" taxes in our utilities, gasoline, and "security fees" for air and sea travelers.

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@cicerone imposter,

c.i. - that was hamburger's proposal he was errrr proposing - not someone else's he was evaluating

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@Brandon9000,

joe and ci have explained about flat taxes as a manifestation of a wrong headed solution to a very big problem. With a flat tax, wed be under the burden of increased sales, VAT, and other local taxes. Itd be more of a nightmare.

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@cicerone imposter,

ci :

my earlier post will be my tax proposal as soon as i become prime minister of canada !!!
<GRIN> Drunk

hope you will take up residence in canada at that time !
(i might be able to slip some nice cushy job in your direction .
might : adviser on tourism in-far-away-places suit you ?) .
hbg

1 Reply

@hamburger,

Perfect! Got any homes in your neighborhood we can afford to buy into? LOL

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No wonder Joe the Plumber Is worried About Taxes

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