Palin vs Hillary

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First off, pardon me for referring to the Gov. of Alaska by her last name and the Sen. from New York by her first name; no disrespect meant, but I had to: I didn't want anyone to confuse which Clinton I was referring to.

And this leads to my question for all the libs/progressives at A2K about the fit they have been throwing about Palin's selection as McCain's VP.

Why are you upset about Palin but support Hillary?

I'm not referring to politics; actually, let's put politics aside for a moment. But after seeing the NY Times, the alphabet news channels, the national news magazines, and even Saturday Night Live, it seems libs/progressives everywhere consider Palin as everything that's wrong with a woman attaining a place on a national ticket.

Why? And further, why Hillary?

Again, stay intellectually honest for a moment and place politics aside. And consider this:

One is married to the president of the United States. As first lady, she stands by her husband during his time of crisis. Supporters admire her, opponents ridicule her. While more politically active than other first ladies, she remains just that - First Lady.

After hubby leaves office, she is able to use her name recognition to gain a US Senate seat. She is later reelected.

Now, can anyone honestly say Hillary would have been elected to the Senate without having been married to the president of the United States? Is she a self-made woman? Why all this talk of a glass ceiling?

The other woman goes from PTA president to mayor to Governor. Could it have happened anywhere but Alaska? Maybe Delaware or another small state. But Palin is self-made, and certainly didn't ride a husband's or father's or any other man's coattails to higher office.

Is this why there is so much hatred?

Again, politics aside, I would like a lib/progressive to take a constructive shot at explaining why lib/progressive women are saying Palin hasn't "earned it."

Yet Hillary is considered the ultimate woman’s candidate…

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@A Lone Voice,

It's possible to be against both of them, yanno.

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Yes but ALV does raise a provocative question that I wonder if any of the more passionate Left here would dare attempt to answer. Whether or not anybody thinks Hillary was qualified to be President, I think nobody thinks Hillary was not at least as qualified to run for President as Barack Obama.

But the fact is that she would probably still be working at some law firm or as a special counsel somewhere if she had not married Bill Clinton. She cannot point to anything she has done on her own that has enabled her to acquire high profile name recognition and prestige in politics other than she was Bill Clinton's wife. Since becoming Senator from New York she has accomplished herself, yes, and I don't think many think she has been a bad senator. What she has accomplished as Senator she has done on her own, and nobody can take that away from her. But she didn't get there on her own.

Sarah Palin has acquired name recognition and high office on purely her own initiative, spunk, drive, and ability to inspire confidence and on the merits of the work she has done. She does not come from either privilege or reputation of name. Her husband seems to be a great guy and certainly has supported her the whole way, but he can't claim any credit for her getting there.

So what rationale can be used to show that Hillary has the right stuff to be President now, but Sarah Palin does not?

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Quote:

Again, politics aside, I would like a lib/progressive to take a constructive shot at explaining why lib/progressive women are saying Palin hasn't "earned it."

She's earned all she's got and I wish her a brisk return to state politics . What's abundantly clear is that she is simply not ready for such high office with a potential to go higher. You've seen what's happened over the last eight years with someone who was spectacularly not ready for high office.

You don't take someone and introduce them as ready for action and then pull them out of action for further training.

[He still isn't but that's another issue.]

McCain himself is not ready for high office. Nor would he ever be. He's simply too narrow minded, he lacks the necessary intelligence, he's not got the ability to reason things out [by his own admission], the list goes on and on.

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@JTT,

McCain's temper and his flip-flops of most of the major issues leaves him with no real leadership skill; only a senile man who changes his mind after he shoots from his hips.

I'd like any conservative in support of McCain to outline for us what he stands for?

Compare his vote record with Bush, and what he's saying now about this administration and congress. Don't forget, he's been in congress for 26-years.

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@A Lone Voice,

Why are you upset about Obama but support McCain?

They're both men...

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libs/progressives everywhere consider Palin as everything that's wrong with a woman attaining a place on a national ticket.

bullshit!

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

So what rationale can be used to show that Hillary has the right stuff to be President now, but Sarah Palin does not?

Probably the most crucial thing is that Sarah hasn't been allowed to take off her training wheels. If the Dems were pulling a stunt like this, you'd be having **** conniptions, Foxy.

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@JTT,

It's really funny how they're able to ignore the obvious. It would be more than "**** conniptions." Trust me.

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

Why are you upset about Obama but support McCain?

They're both men...

The question isn't who would make the best President though. It isn't about who we think has the best ideas or whatever. The question is why is Hillary qualified to be VP or President and Palin is not?

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@Foxfyre,

It's EXACTLY the question.

Do you prefer Obama or McCain? Are there, I dunno, some DIFFERENCES between them?

It's insulting to indicate that a woman automatically gets a woman's vote, anymore than a man automatically gets a man's vote.

In terms of POLICIES, I infinitely prefer Hillary to Palin. (Though overall I prefer Obama to either of them.)

You can't just brush policies aside. That's 90% of my objection to Palin right there.

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

The question is why is Hillary qualified to be VP or President and Palin is not?

Palin is too much like George. Both are leeches. What ever happened to the Republican work ethic?

Quote:

Playing hooky pays off for Palin

Despite all of the discussion of Sarah Palin’s performance as governor of Alaska, there has been little analysis of the simplest measure of performance: attendance. As Woody Allen said many years ago, “80 percent of success is just showing up.”

The Washington Post recently reported that, in her first 19 months as governor, Palin billed the state of Alaska per diem charges for 312 days she spent at her home in Wasilla. Palin’s staff has explained that it was appropriate to bill the state for expenses related to Palin staying in her own house because her “official duty station” was at the state capital of Juneau, where the governor’s official office and mansion are located. But that argument raises a different question: How much time did that leave for her to spend at her “official duty station”?

Nineteen months totals 578 days, but after subtracting weekends and holidays, it is only about 397 workdays. Assuming Palin did not routinely bill the state for staying in her own home on weekends and holidays, she would have spent no more than 85 workdays in the state capital over the course of her 19 months in office, even if she traveled nowhere else in Alaska or outside of the state. That compares with 168 days that the Alaska Legislature was in session during the same period.

One of the state’s leading papers, the Juneau Empire, described her attendance like this:

“Palin has spent little time in Juneau, rarely coming to the state capital except when the Legislature was in session, and sometimes not even then. During a recent special session called by Palin herself, she faced criticism from several legislators for not showing up personally to push for her agenda. Someone at the Capitol even printed up buttons asking, ‘Where’s Sarah?’”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13736.html

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

sozobe wrote:

Why are you upset about Obama but support McCain?

They're both men...

The question isn't who would make the best President though. It isn't about who we think has the best ideas or whatever. The question is why is Hillary qualified to be VP or President and Palin is not?

Well, I didn't support either Palin or Hillary. So the original question is a little off.

But, if I had to compare the two, I would mention that Hillary ran for President and proved that she had the chops to do the job. Palin didn't do **** but happen to be a woman. She didn't mobilize a national campaign to get herself elected over the course of several years, she didn't raise any money, she didn't get any votes from anyone. She was just a She. That's the difference between the two; one proved they were ready to the American public, the other did nothing of the sort.

And continues to do so, by the way. If Palin had the guts to face the media, she wouldn't have to listen to them fill the silence; but she doesn't, and that's another huge difference. Clinton went on every talk show and took every question, and faced down the best that they could throw at her. Palin is a coward and won't do any interviews that aren't pre-approved, or with a suck-up like Hannity. She doesn't deserve the level of respect that Hillary earned...

And this is from someone who personally dislikes Hillary Smile

Cycloptichorn

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Palin has received the endorsement of the most incompetent elected official to ever walk the face of this planet. That in itself should be enough to consider a recall vote for her position as governor.

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

It's EXACTLY the question.

Do you prefer Obama or McCain? Are there, I dunno, some DIFFERENCES between them?

It's insulting to indicate that a woman automatically gets a woman's vote, anymore than a man automatically gets a man's vote.

In terms of POLICIES, I infinitely prefer Hillary to Palin. (Though overall I prefer Obama to either of them.)

You can't just brush policies aside. That's 90% of my objection to Palin right there.

But you can pose the question, who is more qualified to be President, Obama or McCain and actually discuss that without discussing their individual agendas.

Let's pretend that McCain and Obama are 100% agreed on everything. Which would be more qualified to be VP or President?

Now, let's pretend that Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin are 100% agreed on everything. Why would Clinton be more qualified than Palin to be President?

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@A Lone Voice,

I had posted a thread in A2k before the initial start of this election Drama wherein I had opined that USA will never vote a poor innocent citizen like waiter or cabdriver.
USA will never tolerate a woman in the highest post.
USA is not yet matured to vote a person whose skin is not American Dream.
I have a dream was the best quoted( Not even Bible quote is so popular) one by MLK( a bloody **** who had amired Gandhi)
I think USA has got lovely cover girls to enthuse the GIs in Iraq's decent mothers and sisters to torture and butcher in pictch black night..
Send your people to Israel or sweden or Srilanka or India or Bangladhesh to name a few .
The whole system is rotten to the core.

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@Foxfyre,

I do in fact think that Palin is the least qualified of the five of them -- McCain, Obama, Palin, Biden, and Hillary -- for many reasons, but especially because she's done so very little on a NATIONAL scale. (Not to mention international.) Particularly since Alaska is such a weird place, politically. Just as one example -- in the United States at large, high oil prices are a bad thing. In Alaska, that's a very good thing! Mo' money for them!

But my central point is that the whole premise of this thread is a strawman. It's assuming that opposition to Palin is BASED on her relative inexperience.

It ignores the fact that there are plenty (puh-lenty!) of OTHER reasons to oppose her.

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@A Lone Voice,

Shorter version:

A Lone Voice wrote:

The other woman goes from PTA president to mayor to Governor. Could it have happened anywhere but Alaska? Maybe Delaware or another small state. But Palin is self-made, and certainly didn't ride a husband's or father's or any other man's coattails to higher office.

Is this why there is so much hatred?

No.

(Though I'm not sure there is "so much hatred" in the first place -- plenty of the disgust seems to be aimed at McCain for thinking that women's votes can be gotten so easily. "Look, she's a woman! Just like you!")

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@sozobe,

I think you will be dismayed after the announcement of the result.
By the way( though you are active like me but discard my views) may I ask this q?
One lady who occupy the 3 imporatnt post( sorry for my typo Perloski or some name with P as the first letter) after the election two year's back.
The people who had voted this Dame or lady had expected impeachment-
Now she is facing another lady who had lost her son and family.
Which lady should get elected?
My secon q is this.
Why not put a republican lady like Rice as a contestant for this post?
Are there not any brown, yellow, black person to get the attention of the American voters?
I seldom provoke any A2K intellectuals with my barbaric question.
But I had deviated from my own rule this time.
Can I get a convincing comment from you?
I am not forcing you to take a stand.
But I will invalidate my post without remorse.

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@A Lone Voice,

A Lone Voice wrote:

Why are you upset about Palin but support Hillary?

I am far more upset at the prospect of Palin in the White House than Hillary because I disagree and fear almost every single political belief Palin has.

Quote:

I'm not referring to politics; actually, let's put politics aside for a moment.

You cant. Her politics is the overwhelming explanation for why us liberals are so upset about her.

Quote:

it seems libs/progressives everywhere consider Palin as everything that's wrong with a woman attaining a place on a national ticket.

Libs/progressives are upset about the prospect of a VP Palin for many, many reasons, but attaining a place on a national ticket as a woman is not one.

Quote:

Again, stay intellectually honest for a moment and place politics aside.

If you want to be intellectually honest, you can't pretend like the distaste of Palin is based on some insidious other factor rather than simply her politics.

If Palin was a liberal, liberals would have approved of her as a politician, whether or not they still would have considered her too inexperienced to be on the ticket. You wouldnt have found any of the distaste you are describing.

Quote:

Palin is self-made, and certainly didn't ride a husband's or father's or any other man's coattails to higher office.

Is this why there is so much hatred?

No. But nice try.

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Palin vs Hillary

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