Should institutionalized seniors have sexual rights?

Forums: Sex, Law, Rights, Seniors And Sex, Dementia And Sex
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...Old people have plenty of intercourse when they're not in an institutional setting. A survey published last month in the New England Journal of Medicine found that a quarter of those between the ages of 75 and 85 were having sex, and many were doing it at least once every couple of weeks. A third of these sexually active respondents said they had either given or received oral sex in the past year.

There's no reason to think that nursing-home residents would be any less frisky, if left to their own devices. After all, we're talking about a mixed-sex population living in close quarters with almost endless amounts of free time. Already, staffers routinely field patient requests for personal lubricants, pornographic magazines, larger-size beds, and prescriptions for Viagra. And that's with the 1.6 million elderly residents who came of age before the sexual revolution. Within a few decades, nursing homes will be replete with the desires and expectations of almost 7 million liberated baby boomers.

For now, though, never mind what they want: We seem content to let our elders lie in celibate repose as they wait for Oscar, the death-sniffing cat. In most nursing homes, residents are relegated to narrow mattresses with very little privacy. Nurses enter rooms without knocking, and express disgust at masturbation or coupling, and in some cases, residents are even deprived of conjugal visits from their long-term partners. (This 2004 case study [PDF] from Clinical Geriatrics describes a 77-year-old resident who is instructed by his doctor to "take cold showers" when he complains of sexual issues.) Overseas, elderly patients seem to enjoy a bit more open-mindedness; at one home in Denmark, you can even call out for hookers and X-rated movies. But most nursing-home residents in the United States suffer under a regime of tyrannical chastity...

http://www.slate.com/id/2199606/

My view: yes they should. The theory of informed consent breaks down in real life, and this is one such place. Let the old farts have fun if they want to...they surely know what they like, and they deserve to have some of what they like as they get ready to die.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 3,836 • Replies: 31

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Should institutionalized seniors have sexual rights?

You don't seem to have the foggiest notion as to what constitutes a "right". The article isn't about "rights" it's about nursing home policies.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

I can't believe I'm agreeing with you twice in one year, but YES, of course they should - they're beyond the age of consent and it's a personal decision.

My 71 yr old mother just married an 82 yr old man - I'm sure they're "doing it" Smile

She's a young 71. Don't know about him since I just met the guy, but if she thinks he's worth marrying, I'm sure they're getting it on.

The nursing homes can simply ask residents to put a Do Not Disturb - Sex in Progress sign on the door if they don't want to catch them unawares. It would be funny if you went to work and every door on one floor had that sign hanging off the knob. door knob, that is.

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@Robert Gentel,

I recommend that you read it again....

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@Mame,

What does it say to you mame when it looks like the institutions will only allow those inside to be sexual after they insulate themselves from the legal system???? Are you ready yet to agree with me that something is wrong with our sex laws???

I expect that I will need to work on you some more, but have faith that you will see what I do at some point.

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@hawkeye10,

Ok, I just did. I read every single word again and this article is indicting nursing home policies and I still don't think you understand legal rights.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

What does it say to you mame when it looks like the institutions will only allow those inside to be sexual after they insulate themselves from the legal system???? Are you ready yet to agree with me that something is wrong with our sex laws???

I expect that I will need to work on you some more, but have faith that you will see what I do at some point.

First, I did not read the link. I just read the bit you quoted, so to answer your first question, I"ll have to go and read that.

Second, I will never agree with all your views. In fact, I remember disagreeing with you quite recently about lowering the age of consent for teens.

What I am against most is regulation, esp where it concerns our personal lives. Sex is just one aspect of this regulation... when you are considered an adult (can vote) and are not imprisoned, then you should enjoy all the rights every other adult has and NOBODY should tell you what you can and cannot do, unless it's illegal, of course.

1 Reply

@Mame,

Mame wrote:

What I am against most is regulation, esp where it concerns our personal lives. Sex is just one aspect of this regulation... when you are considered an adult (can vote) and are not imprisoned, then you should enjoy all the rights every other adult has and NOBODY should tell you what you can and cannot do, unless it's illegal, of course.

What hawkeye is trying to do is tie the nursing home policies to legal rights about informed consent.

The seniors have a legal right to sex but they don't have a legal right to sex in the nursing home (just like I don't have a right to have sex wherever I feel like). There are nursing homes that allow sex and nursing homes that don't and the senior's don't have any legal regulation of their sex going on, they just have caretakers who are uncomfortable with the mixture of health care and sex after years of sexual abuse scandals in nursing homes.

Hawkeye is trying to take their arguably draconian policies and tie it to his qualms with minors being off limits. Thing is, those seniors have legal rights as long as they are legally deemed fit to give informed consent. And just because the prudish nursing homes don't want to get involved doesn't mean that there are any flaws with the laws, just the nursing home policies.

So he frames this as an issue of "rights" when it isn't in order to tie it to his position on minors and sex which is a case of legal rights.

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@hawkeye10,

Here is one more person who agrees with you, but there are issues that need to be addressed before saying, sure, go ahead and have fun. Here is another excerpt from the article:

Quote:

So what happens when one of these patients with dementia starts sleeping around? According to federal law, nursing-home residents are guaranteed some small degree of privacy, as well as the right to "psychosocial well-being""which can be taken to include free sexual expression. The administrator must balance these rights with the possibility that the patient isn't able to consent to sex at all, and that his every encounter amounts to an elder version of gray rape.

Certainly spouses or partners should be given the right to be intimate with the patient. And elderly romances are quite frequent and, in my opinion, healthy.

On the downside, I have read that STD's are on the rise in elder care facilities. Many of these people we born before the sexual revolution and have no idea about the importance of safe sex. Sex education for the elderly is badly needed.

It isn't a yes or no situation, but for now, the elderly in most nusing homes are being denied one of the few things left in their lives that can give them pleasure and make them feel alive in the best possible way.

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@Robert Gentel,

I don't advocate in particular for adult-child sexual rights, I advocate for sexual freedom across the board, for all ages. It is absolutely a rights matter. Individuals should have the right to be sexual as they see fit, with very few exceptions.

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Robert, I didn't realize the connection to the question of minors being free to have sex. That is a totally different subject and should not be compared to the elderly having the right to engage in sex.

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

Mame wrote:

What I am against most is regulation, esp where it concerns our personal lives. Sex is just one aspect of this regulation... when you are considered an adult (can vote) and are not imprisoned, then you should enjoy all the rights every other adult has and NOBODY should tell you what you can and cannot do, unless it's illegal, of course.

What hawkeye is trying to do is tie the nursing home policies to legal rights about informed consent.

The seniors have a legal right to sex but they don't have a legal right to sex in the nursing home (just like I don't have a right to have sex wherever I feel like). There are nursing homes that allow sex and nursing homes that don't and the senior's don't have any legal regulation of their sex going on, they just have caretakers who are uncomfortable with the mixture of health care and sex after years of sexual abuse scandals in nursing homes.

Hawkeye is trying to take their arguably draconian policies and tie it to his qualms with minors being off limits. Thing is, those seniors have legal rights as long as they are legally deemed fit to give informed consent. And just because the prudish nursing homes don't want to get involved doesn't mean that there are any flaws with the laws, just the nursing home policies.

So he frames this as an issue of "rights" when it isn't in order to tie it to his position on minors and sex which is a case of legal rights.

Thank you for clarifying that. I haven't had time to read that link. I should go do that.

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@Diane,

that is interesting, because it would appear that you, me, the youth, and the elderly all would be included in the subject "human sexuality and the law". The particular point I am making here is that there are problems with the concept of informed consent.

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I have worked in nursing homes for 9 years.
There are NO laws against residents having sex.

None.

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@shewolfnm,

let me amend that.
No laws against residents who want to have sex with each other that are capable to consent.

0 Replies

@shewolfnm,

that is not the claim, the claim is that nursing homes that are subject to legal action do not allow the residents to be sexual because they are afraid that they will be made party to rape charges.

Quote:

Why are nursing-home administrators so queasy about sexual expression? They're afraid of getting sued. An estimated 50 percent of elderly residents suffer from some degree of Alzheimer's disease or dementia, which, depending on its severity, can make them confused, forgetful, or unaware of their own behavior. Even in the best cases, many of these patients may not be able to provide clear consent to a sexual advance.

edit:
My claim is that even if elderly are mentally deficient due to age related lack of brain function they should still be allowed to be sexual. The reason that their activities are considered rape and against the law is that there is a problem with the law, not because their is a problem with what they are doing. That being dogmatic about informed consent is dehumanizing.

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

I don't advocate in particular for adult-child sexual rights, I advocate for sexual freedom across the board, for all ages.

Given that the elderly already have a right to sexual freedom you are pretty much just advocating adult-child sex in particular.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

that is not the claim, the claim is that nursing homes that are subject to legal action do not allow the residents to be sexual because they are afraid that they will be made party to rape charges.

So what's your point? If I were in charge of two elderly people I wouldn't let them have sex in my house either if I were worried that one of them is not fit to give informed consent.

That doesn't mean that I am denying them their rights, it just means I'm exercising my own of not wanting to be responsible for it.

Quote:

My claim is that even if elderly are mentally deficient due to age related lack of brain function they should still be allowed to be sexual.

So the orderlies who rape them should not be punished? The comatose ones are fair game? You have to draw the line somewhere.

Quote:

The reason that their activities are considered rape and against the law is that there is a problem with the law, not because their is a problem with what they are doing. That being dogmatic about informed consent is dehumanizing.

And here it is, we are back to hawkeye advocating the repealing of protections against people who are not able to give informed consent, not "seniors" in general.

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

I am aware that you consider yourself a legal guru, but a theoretical right that is not able to be used is a right that does not exist. If a home resident is being actively prohibited from having sex without a reasonable and speedy remedy then they don't have the right to have sex. Also, as has been explained to you many people in the homes suffer from some level of metal decline, many of them legally have no right to sex because their partners would be guilty of rape. A person who can not consent to sex is a person who does not have the right to be sexual.

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@Robert Gentel,

Quote:

And here it is, we are back to hawkeye advocating the repealing of protections against people who are not able to give informed consent, not "seniors" in general.

and how much you wanna bet that administrators who actively work to keep all residents non sexual use as their justification "we need to protect the residents"? General society also says that they need to protect certain individuals and groups, and sometimes that is justified, but other times society needs to butt out of people sex lives once they say they don't want other peoples "protection".

how about a bit of basic human respect and dignity? Do we need to treat teens as idiots? Do we NEED to monitor our grandparents to make sure that they don't have sex, even if they tell us to leave them alone, because their minds don't work very well any more? I hope when you get old you get a taste of the medicine that you are so willing to dish out to others.

1 Reply

Should institutionalized seniors have sexual rights?

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