Should institutionalized seniors have sexual rights?

@hawkeye10,

What others said.

Certainly our legal system is different - but seniors do have the same rights as any others over 18-years old adult (if these rights aren't narrowed by legal orders).

I suppose, in the USA like here, seniors know the regulations of a residence before the go there, subscribe to the contract.

So if they don't like it - go somewhere else.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

I am aware that you consider yourself a legal guru, but a theoretical right that is not able to be used is a right that does not exist.

Nonsense. If they want to have sex they just have to go to a nursing home that allows them to have sex. A legal right does not mean a guarantee that you will get something, just the right to without being prohibited by law.

And I don't have to be a legal guru to elucidate you on law, all that takes is a functional understanding of its basic precepts, which you lack.

Quote:

If a home resident is being actively prohibited from having sex without a reasonable and speedy remedy then they don't have the right to have sex.

Bullshit. They have the legal right and if they want to exercise it they should go to a nursing home that respects those matters. Or fight for them. There are also cases of nursing homes allowing them to have sex for fear that they would be illegally denying it to them.

Quote:

When a 72-year-old grandmother and a 68-year-old man started holding hands at a Westwood nursing home, staff members thought it was cute.

But when the unmarried couple announced they wanted to have sex, staffers were stunned.

"We thought, 'No way,' " said Sara Gramann, director of nursing at the home at the time. "Then we realized we would be violating their rights."

http://www.cincinnati.com/text/kypost/2003/07/12/sex071203.html

Quote:

Also, as has been explained to you many people in the homes suffer from some level of metal decline, many of them legally have no right to sex because their partners would be guilty of rape. A person who can not consent to sex is a person who does not have the right to be sexual.

And that shouldn't change. If they are not mentally capable of informed consent they should stipulate that their legal guardian can. Otherwise there is potential for great abuse.

You are just trying to advocate the legalization of adult-kids sex and mischaracterizing the nursing home sex scenario to try to gain sympathy for your real issue. If falls on its face because as long as they can give informed consent the sex is perfectly legal and reasonable people will see the potential for abuse if you decriminalize sex with people who can't give legal consent.

You still haven't answered how you intend to deal with orderlies raping the patients who can't give consent if you decriminalize such behavior.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

how about a bit of basic human respect and dignity? Do we need to treat teens as idiots?

Not letting degenerates who lust for them prey on them with impunity doesn't equal "treating them like idiots".

Quote:

Do we NEED to monitor our grandparents to make sure that they don't have sex, even if they tell us to leave them alone, because their minds don't work very well any more?

Do we need to punish the orderly who rapes the senile patients?

Quote:

I hope when you get old you get a taste of the medicine that you are so willing to dish out to others.

Yeah, I hope when I'm old people protect me from degenerates too.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

that is not the claim, the claim is that nursing homes that are subject to legal action do not allow the residents to be sexual because they are afraid that they will be made party to rape charges.

But that is just not true.
Sex is not stopped unless one of the participants has BEEN diagnosed with alzheimers, stage II or greater. Not that there really iS a greater.. stage III is death. But I digress.
If you are to work in a nursing home, you have to acknowledge, by signature, basic rules, regulations, and if you want to use the word.. 'rights'
One of those rights is sex.
You, as a nurse , worker, guest in THEIR home, are not allowed to interfere, insult, prevent or otherwise just be in the way of any sexual relationship , personal space, or 'private time'.

No. not all nurses are shining examples of this. You get to the level of nurse 'aide' and all hell breaks loose when it comes to basic 'rights' being blown out of the water.
You can not control the individual worker as well as you would hope.

but the idea that nursing homes strictly do not allow sex is just ... well.. thats bullshit. Go work in a few before you make that kind of claim. Seriously.

Now, Im sure there are specialized care units that may have to 'seperate' people. Especially if the majority of their residents have Alzheimers, are schizophrenia suffers.. or the like. Yes. I can see how you as a worker / home manager / director of nursing, would have to pay extra attention. In those types of places and certain types of mental diseases, sex can amount to physical danger. that is where people have to step in, and unless you have a lot of experience with those kinds of people, you dont understand. It will just sound like someone trying to dictate something they shouldnt and that could not be further from the truth.

Physical restraints when through this kind of debate and over thinking several years ago. they are now seen as illegal thanks to the odd ball nurses and other workers who would abuse them, or otherwise not use them correctly. Sometimes, that is the only way you can save someone from themselves.

If the question of sex is now up for debate ( on more then just a forum) I am sad for the residents who will have to live at the hands of super conservative, sexually repressed people.
Right now, sex is not stopped,there are no rules against it ( unless a danger is posed) and you as a worker are not allowed to interfere .

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Not only sexual rights, but medals to boot!

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Robert Gentel wrote:

Quote:

So the orderlies who rape them should not be punished? The comatose ones are fair game? You have to draw the line somewhere.

That is where the danger is. Consent is at the core of all sexual rights and in the case of those with little ability to defend themselves, consent has to be the major factor in allowing sex to take place. That isn't a restriction, it is simply a safety measure that provides rational protection to those who are unable to protect themselves, either emotionally or physically or both.

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@Diane,

there is also the matter of elderly sex offenders being residents, who may be still frisky in their old age. A sensible middle ground is needed.

I am still looking into the claim that residents are not discouraged from being sexual. Nursing home sex seems to be a taboo subject, more taboo than I thought it was. There seem to be very few studies, only a wide belief that staff actively prevent the conditions that would lead to sex. I tend to believe the stories, as nursing homes are almost all owned by corporations who are trying to pay down huge debt loads by spending less on services. Employees more than ever are low paid, and often staff numbers are well below where they should be. Sexual situations between residents would consume time, which from the staffs point of view is a bad thing.

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I thought we were talking about two "consenting" seniors. My short-cut readings gets me into more trouble...

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@hawkeye10,

I don't think you have the general practice wrong. I think you are right that the nursing homes generally get in the way of the seniors having sex. Where you are wrong is to portray this as a matter of legal rights and the need to revamp the laws on informed consent because the law is not prohibiting the middle ground you are now talking about.

And speaking of the middle ground, do you acknowledge that there needs to be an informed consent line?

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@cicerone imposter,

I hear you CI, my convoluted sense of humor gets me in trouble all the time too, but on the other hand policy or no policy if a couple 70+ or 80+ can get it on with or without a pill don't they deserve a medal?

help help I've fallen and I can't get it up.

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@Sglass,

oh horse feathers I think that I made a typo

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Quote:

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) -- When Kansas State University sent researchers into nursing homes to find out how the topic of sex was being addressed, they initially found silence.

''Nobody was talking about it; it was a really hush-hush subject,'' said Gayle Doll, director of the university's Center on Aging. ''I guess it's hard enough for people to think about their parents having sex, let alone their grandparents.''

In response, the researchers have produced seminars and training aids to encourage nursing home caregivers to discuss and accommodate sexual desires.

The effort brings Kansas into a national discussion that advocates say will only grow as baby boomers age and take their beliefs about sexual freedom and civil rights into the nation's nursing homes.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2008/12/22/us/AP-Nursing-Home-Sex.html

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Should institutionalized seniors have sexual rights?

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