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FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 01:17 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Really? Okay I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Please cite those salient sources and what they have to offer to 'debunk' the information my sources offered. (The fact that 'no evidence has been found to convict anyone) is enough to convince me that your source hasn't done much serious research as there have been a number of indictments and convcitions arising out of the activities of ACORN and/or its subsidiaries.

Before spending a lot of time, you might want to read this first:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010400
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 01:21 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Really? Okay I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Please cite those salient sources and what they have to offer to 'debunk' the information my sources offered. (The fact that 'no evidence has been found to convict anyone) is enough to convince me that your source hasn't done much serious research as there have been a number of indictments and convcitions arising out of the activities of ACORN and/or its subsidiaries.

Before spending a lot of time, you might want to read this first:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010400



The article you just linked to details 5 people who were convicted in 2005.

5, Fox. And several of them were for Felon voting, not trying to falsify identity.

Go ahead, keep pushing at this string, Fox. And see where it gets you. I doubt that even you will be able to convince yourself, on Nov. 5th, that fraud stole the election massively for Obama.

Cycloptichorn
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 01:23 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Advantage Cyclo.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 01:25 pm
@Foxfyre,
And btw. About that whole Ayers thing? You think anyone but right-wingers give a f*ck about it?

Not so much.

Quote:
Fox Poll: Nearly Two-Thirds Say Ayers Makes No Difference To Their Vote
By Greg Sargent and Eric Kleefeld - October 10, 2008, 2:44PM

These numbers, buried in the internals of a new Fox News poll out today, are the first time a national poll has tried to gauge the impact of Barack Obama's association with William Ayers. And the numbers are pretty bad for McCain:

Quote:
There has been some discussion of Barack Obama's relationship with the former radical activist William Ayers. Because Ayers is linked to plots to bomb the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol in the 1970s, and because Ayres recently said he wished he had done more, some people say Obama's association with Ayers calls into question his judgment. Does Obama's connection with Ayers make you less likely to vote for him for president or does it not really make a difference to your vote?

Less Likely 32%

No Difference 61%


Strikingly, the numbers are worse for McCain among independents: Only 29% say the Ayers association makes them less likely to vote for Obama, and more than twice as many -- 64% -- say it makes no difference. The data suggests that the vast majority of the respondents saying it makes them less likely to vote for Obama are Republicans, who probably wouldn't have supported him anyway.

Meanwhile, the poll suggests that McCain's attacks could be blowing back on him: A majority -- 51% -- say he's running a negative campaign, as compared to only 21% who say that about Obama.

Our handy TPM Election Central calculator tells us that the number of voters think McCain is running a negative campaign is nearly double that of the number who care about McCain's primary attack line right now. Go figure.

Could it be that voters have something on their minds other than the question of what a former violent radical who's now respected in Chicago was doing when Obama was walking around in shortpants?


http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/fox_poll_ayers_not_hurting_oba.php

And I know you'll believe a Fox poll, Fox, Laughing so don't give me any bullshit about biased pollsters.

You need to wake up and realize that the Republican party is facing a crushing defeat, and nobody in the country gives a damn about Ayers or ACORN. They care about the economy, which stinks, and about 8 years of Bush failures. What you are going to see is a repudiation of your entire line of thought, Fox. And it will be painful for you and your side in the months following the election. There will be a winnowing in the Republican party as the blame is cast about to everyone, but make sure that you save some blame for yourself, Fox.

Cycloptichorn
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 01:27 pm
Game to Cyclo. One-love. Foxfyre to serve.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 01:27 pm
@spendius,
You think? How so? My comments with supporting articles related to an $800,000 contribution made to ACORN through its subsidiaries by the Obama campaign, his failure to report that to the FEC, and what the ramifications of that are related to the current....not 2005....incidents of voter registraton fraud. Cyclop offered a source that gave no rebuttal whatsoever and did state an erroneous fact (that I rebutted) and he is now trying to change the subject.

What kind of judge are you anyway? Any judge worth his salt counts points off for that kind of tactic demonstrated by Cyclop.

Your serve.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 01:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
It's not only Fox who doesn't understand the dynamics of our political system. That's the reason why McCain/Palin keeps pushing this stupid, noneffective, issue on to their mind-dead crowds that yup it up.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 01:32 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

You think? How so? My comments with supporting articles related to an $800,000 contribution made to ACORN through its subsidiaries by the Obama campaign, his failure to report that to the FEC, and what the ramifications of that are related to the current....not 2005....incidents of voter registraton fraud. Cyclop offered a source that gave no rebuttal whatsoever and did state an erroneous fact (that I rebutted) and he is now trying to change the subject.

What kind of judge are you anyway? Any judge worth his salt counts points off for that kind of tactic.


What erroneous fact, Fox?

The truth is that all the focus on voter fraud by the Republicans and the Bush camp has resulted in practically no convictions. And you have not provided evidence that it has. Why not?

Cycloptichorn
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 03:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I would presume it is because it would be very difficult to get convictions.

ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 03:29 pm
@spendius,
First comes collection of evidence. Then comes indictments. Finally comes convictions. All that takes more than several months.

The evidence is piling up. Increasing numbers of individuals that registered to vote more than once are freely admitting to newspaper, radio and TV interviewers that they registered more than once.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 03:31 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

First comes collection of evidence. Then comes indictments. Finally comes convictions. All that takes more than several months.

The evidence is piling up. Increasing numbers of individuals that registered to vote more than once are freely admitting to newspaper, radio and TV interviewers that they registered more than once.


Ican, the Republicans have been looking into this stuff for YEARS. Where are the convictions?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 03:33 pm
@ican711nm,
When the entire Dallas Cowboy football team showed up on registrations in I believe Ohio, that should have been their first clue.

But since Cyclop decided to ignore my prior posts describing indictments and convictions of ACORN workers here's a piece published today:

Quote:
Inside Today's Bulletin
From Little ACORNs Grow Big Scandals

By Michael P. Tremoglie, The Bulletin
09/18/2008

A community organization, with longstanding ties to Barack Obama, has, according to numerous reports, repeatedly run afoul of voter registration laws both locally and nationally.

Mr. Obama worked for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now's Project Vote voter-registration campaign in 1992 after graduating from Harvard Law School. He directed a successful voter-registration campaign, credited with electing Carol Moseley-Braun to the U.S. Senate. Primarily targeting African-Americans, Mr. Obama's efforts added an estimated 125,000 voters to the rolls.

He also participated on a team of attorneys working on behalf of ACORN. They filed a 1995 lawsuit, which required the state of Illinois to implement the federal "motor-voter" bill. He still maintains a relationship with the organization. Mr. Obama's campaign had to file amended federal election reports in August. They paid more than $800,000 to Citizens Services Inc. (CSI), an ACORN subsidiary, to turn out for the campaign during the primaries. However, the campaign listed CSI's activities as polling, advance work and staging major events.

ACORN has a checkered past - and present. It is a grassroots political organization founded by Wade Rathke and George Wiley, both of whom were community organizers for the National Welfare Rights Organization (NWRO).
That checkered past also has turned up locally.

Philadelphia election officials recently accused ACORN, of filing multiple fraudulent voter registrations during the 2008 Pennsylvania primary. The case has been referred to the U.S. Attorney's office, according to Philadelphia Deputy Election Commissioner Fred Voight.

Delaware County election officials have made similar allegations against the group, and criminal indictments are pending.

This past July 24, Dauphin County detectives offered a $2,000 reward for information about the whereabouts of Luis R. Torres-Serrano, an ACORN worker, who was accused of submitting more than 100 fraudulent voter registrations.
ACORN's legal problems with their voter registration efforts stretch beyond state boundaries.

The Milwaukee district attorney is investigating 39 ACORN employees for criminal violations, including offering gifts to sign up voters and falsifying driver's license numbers, Social Security numbers or other information on voter registration cards.

Five ACORN employees were convicted and imprisoned in Washington state, in 2007, for what was described by Washington's Secretary of State Sam Reed, as, "was the worst case of election fraud in our state's history. It was an outrage."

"(ACORN) Workers ... said they were under pressure from the community-organizing group that hired them to sign up more voters," The Seattle Times reported . "Workers told investigators they went to the Seattle public library and filled out the voter registration forms, by using contrived names, addresses and Social Security numbers and in some cases plucked names from the phone book."

Numerous ACORN-related indictments and, or convictions, have been seeded across the country in recent years.
Four part-time ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City, Mo., for voter registration fraud in November 2006. Two Colorado ACORN workers were sentenced to community service, in January 2005, for submitting false voter registrations.

During the 2004 election, ACORN, and its sister group Project Vote, ran a nationwide voter mobilization drive that was rife with allegations of voter fraud. A worker for one ACORN affiliate in Ohio was allegedly given crack cocaine in exchange for fraudulent registrations that included underage voters, dead voters and voters named Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy and Jive Turkey. Four Ohio ACORN employees were indicted by a federal grand jury for submitting false voter registration forms.

Messrs. Rathke and Wiley formed ACORN in the early 1970s, expanding their involvement beyond welfare recipients to all issues touching low-income and working-class people. According to Discoverthenetworks.org, they enlisted civil rights workers and trained them in a program at Syracuse University patterned after the Saul Alinsky school of activist tactics in Chicago.



Today, ACORN is the largest community organization of low- and moderate-income people in America, with over 400,000 member families organized into more than 1,200 neighborhood chapters in 110 cities across the country.

ACORN founded the Working Families Party in New York in 1998. They endorsed Hillary Clinton for her Senate campaign that year. Canvassers from ACORN and its sister groups launched a statewide voter-mobilization drive that proved influential in Mrs. Clinton's victory.
Yet, opponents say ACORN has violated its own mission not to mention numerous laws meant to protect poor and working class citizens and voters.

The New York Times reported in July 2008 that a whistleblower forced the organization to publicly disclose an embezzlement of almost $1 million in 1999 and 2000, involving Dale Rathke, the brother of the organization's founder Wade Rathke.

Some ACORN executives kept the information from board members and did not tell law enforcement. Meanwhile, Dale Rathke remained on the payroll until June 2008, when disclosure of his theft forced the organization to dismiss him.

"We thought it best at the time to protect the organization, as well as to get the funds back into the organization, to deal with it in-house," said ACORN President Maude Hurd. "It was a judgment call at the time, and looking back, people can agree or disagree with it, but we did what we thought was right."

The Consumers Rights League spokesman Jim Terry said, "ACORN has a long and sordid history of employing convoluted Enron-style accounting to illegally use taxpayer funds for their own political gain. Now it looks like ACORN is using the same type of convoluted accounting scheme for Obama's political gain."

ACORN did not respond to requests for a statement. However, they did refer to a statement by Ms. Hurd, in a Sept. 12 press release, saying, "ACORN has NEVER been indicted for voter fraud, violating elections laws or encouraging ineligible citizens to vote."
http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=20128338&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 03:41 pm
@Foxfyre,
Fox, That just kills you, doesn't it? LOL
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 03:47 pm
@Foxfyre,
Fox, wow. I don't know how I could have thought any differently about this case! Now that I've seen a piece from THE BULLETIN - Philly's Family Newspaper - gosh, all my concerns about the veracity of your argument just disappeared! Laughing


Of course, not so much. And you ought to try to read the date on pieces before you claim they are 'published today.'

This idiotic piece shows a couple of convictions, of street-level workers who turned in false applications for more money. It doesn't show any conspiracy or attempt to sway any election on anyone's behalf, or show that anyone showed up to vote under these falsely registered names. Now does it?

This whole thing is nothing but a boogeyman for your side; a way for you to later on convince yourself that the election was stolen by poor Negros. Pathetic and borderline racist.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 03:48 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
"ACORN has NEVER been indicted for voter fraud, violating elections laws or encouraging ineligible citizens to vote."


Seems pretty simple and straight forward to me. Rogue employees committed crimes. ACORN was not party to those crimes.

Of course if you want to make Bush responsible for every act by a rogue government employee then we can blame ACORN for their rogue employees. What's good for the goose after all.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 03:50 pm
@parados,
On a more human level, just because we call ourselves Americans doesn't mean some in our country are all law-abiding citizens. If that were so, we're all to blame for all the crimes admitted in "our" name.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 03:56 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

News this morning is that the Obama campaign has contributed $800,000!!!! to subsidiaries of ACORN and kinda sorta conveniently failed to report that which they are now saying was just a clerical error.

Ok, so according to your sources this was in the primaries, and it was reported, as your first source cites the FEC. So... I am trying to figure out what the big deal is.
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 04:04 pm
Anchorage Daily News
Judge: Palin must preserve e-mails on private accounts


"A state judge today ordered Gov. Sarah Palin to preserve any e-mails written on private accounts that deal with state business."

http://www.adn.com/

0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 04:07 pm
Anchorage Daily News

Legislators meet secretly on Troopergate


A legislative panel convened this morning to receive a report on the Troopergate affair and after 25 minutes went into a closed session to question investigator Steve Branchflower....

http://www.adn.com/news/story/551898.html



0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2008 04:13 pm
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

News this morning is that the Obama campaign has contributed $800,000!!!! to subsidiaries of ACORN and kinda sorta conveniently failed to report that which they are now saying was just a clerical error.

Ok, so according to your sources this was in the primaries, and it was reported, as your first source cites the FEC. So... I am trying to figure out what the big deal is.


No big deal except that it strongly attaches Obama to still another shady organization/operation/group of folks and does give incentive to wonder how much his campaign is tolerating or encouraging or overlooking the dubious ACORN practices. It raises the question of how beholden ACORN is to furthering Obama's cause and how much Obama is encouraging federal funding of ACORN in return for its continued 'help'. It's another example of something Obama overlooked or just didn't know at the time, a persistent M.O. in the whole big picture. Its just another cog in the wheel of assessing the kind of person we are electing to office.

It will be fun to see if Obama has the guts to throw ACORN under the bus like he has everything/everybody else who finally became too much a political liability to bear. So far he has not spoken out against ACORN other than to deny any knowledge or culpability in its more dubious activities.
 

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