FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Show me where it comes from their website.

As I just said:

old europe wrote:

It's from the FAQ page of the Alaskan Independence Party.

Feel free to click on the link. It is the FAQ section from the same website you linked to earlier.

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@cicerone imposter,

I already did refute it.....just a little while ago CI. Do you have a reading comprehensive problem today dear?

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

I did Walter. And I stand by what I said and I also acknowledge that the Q&A section is there. I still don't find anything subversive or hateful on the AIP site other than people who have little confidence in their government. So do all of your who hate President Bush. The AIP stance is that the US government has not kept its Constitutional contract with the people. I agree with them. I disagree with them on how to deal with that.

They want to return to territorial status where they can call more of their own shots. I would prefer to overhaul the government and return it to its Constitutional authority.

But a radical subversive organization? I don't see that.

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@Foxfyre,

Well than oe's and my web is different to yours. (See my copy of the their website - following your own link.)

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@Foxfyre,

Please link it, because I can't find it.

Here's the membership numbers from Wasila:
DISTRICT 14 - Wasilla 13,337 424 3.18%

If we can get the membership list, that'll be the final word.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

I did Walter. And I stand by what I said.

Well, you said, in regard to a quote from the Alaskan Independence Party website:

Foxfyre wrote:

You'll need more than something made up by some hateful person to convince me that the AIP is some subversive radical organization.

If you stand by that - fine. Because that seems to say that the quoted text in question was written by a hateful person. It seems to say that the quoted text would convince a rational person to consider the AIP a " subversive radical organization".

Yet, at the same time, you state that

Foxfyre wrote:

I just don't see anything especially sinister or subversive there; just people who don't like the way the USA is going much and think they could do it better themselves.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

All you have to do is follow the links that I posted. And it is on this page or the previous page. Try. I know you can do it. I have full confidence in you.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:
The Alaskan Independence Party burst into the national spotlight when Clark released a statement reporting that Sarah Palin and her husband, Todd, were both members. After the ensuing uproar, Clark issued an apology and correction, declaring that only Todd was an actual member of the AIP. (He belonged from 1995 to 2002.) The McCain campaign put out a statement denying the vice presidential nominee had ever been a member, but it said nothing about Todd Palin. Since then, other AIP members have offered conflicting information about Sarah Palin's affiliation with the party. And earlier this year, as governor, Palin addressed the AIP convention, stating that she shared the party's "vision."

Isn't this more "damaaging" than Obama being on the same community organizastion board with Ayers? From what I've read, it was an "educational " board. Sarah Palin agrees with the AIP party's "vision."

McCain's "country first" sounds more hollow every time something about Palin comes up.

1 Reply

@old europe,

You are going to believe what you want to believe. I see it differently than you.

You believe Obama is the great messiah who will save the world. I don't see anything but pretty much an empty suit with a lot of dangerous ideas.

You want to believe Sarah Palin is an evil, hideous person. I prefer to see her as a bright, capable, and remarkable woman.

You believe George W. Bush is Satan personified. I prefer to be disappointed in him for failure to lead and promoting some liberal nonsense, but give him credit where credit is due as I have done for all Presidents whether or not I voted for them.

You usually believe the worst of America and Americans; I believe America is a pretty great place and worth defending.

You have made it clear that you see me as having no thought or point of view worth considering. I allow you that point of view. I trust you will allow me to continue to see you as not having any interest in any truth that upsets your negative views about anything.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
The Alaskan Independence Party burst into the national spotlight when Clark released a statement reporting that Sarah Palin and her husband, Todd, were both members. After the ensuing uproar, Clark issued an apology and correction, declaring that only Todd was an actual member of the AIP. (He belonged from 1995 to 2002.) The McCain campaign put out a statement denying the vice presidential nominee had ever been a member, but it said nothing about Todd Palin. Since then, other AIP members have offered conflicting information about Sarah Palin's affiliation with the party. And earlier this year, as governor, Palin addressed the AIP convention, stating that she shared the party's "vision."

Read the links CI and learn something instead of continuing to promote stuff that has long since been refuted.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

But a radical subversive organization? I don't see that.

How laughable. You saw exactly that a few minutes ago. After reading a quote from the AIP site--a site for which YOU provided the link--you posted this:

Foxfyre wrote:

You'll need more than something made up by some hateful person to convince me that the AIP is some subversive radical organization.

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

Rant on Debra. Rant on. I am not a liberal so I prefer not to demonize people who think differently than I do but intend me no harm.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Quote:

Please provide a link Debra. We already know two websites exist that look identical but one is real and one is a counterfeit designed specifically to smear Sarah Palin. You'll need more than something made up by some hateful person to convince me that the AIP is some subversive radical organization.

Why would anybody make it up. It's a defensible position to think the US is a rotting corpse. By saying that such a view is "subversive" you are taking rather a lot on your shoulders. Why is it subversive if it is true? Not that I'm saying so. Veblen said the US was a psychiatric ward in 1899.

You're in a new world now. All this nervous chattering about the old world of half-baked socialism is just a smokescreen for not facing up to it. And not facing up to my posts.

America, with its known capacity could easily afford free health care for all but, as Veblen pointed out, the need for pecuniary emulation, a psychological category leaving aside stealth eugenics, is such that it can consume any amount of surplus over the necessities and will borrow to do so off future generations.

Do you not see the point, and the pointlessness of this back and forth trivia? We have lurched into socialism. And powers are being taken to handle this crisis. New powers. We have to hope they will be rescinded when things settle down, if they do I mean, but history suggests not.

And to guide us along we have either Mr Obama or Mr McCain and neither have the slightest idea because nobody has. Then other characteristics are in the frame that those you are flogging to death.

It's finding out who the true Darwinians are.

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@Foxfyre,

Please list for us all of Obama's "dangerous ideas."

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

But a radical subversive organization? I don't see that.

They want to secede from the Union. That's not radical? That's not subversive?

Here is how they introduce themselves:

You don't have a problem with someone who says

Quote:

"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."

or with a party that follows that maxime?

Good. Then I don't see how you can have a problem with Ayers or Wright.

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@old europe,

oe, You identified another Fox contradiction. The sad part is she's not aware of it. LOL

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@old europe,

I have a problem with any American who has no use for America. I'm 100% sure that Todd Palin and Sarah Palin and the large majority of the members of the AIP have a problem with that also. I had a problem with Barack Obama putting down America in front of a German audience. But that's just me.

But the AIP wants to regain its territorial status and therefore more control over their own affairs. They certainly aren't advocating bombing buildings without remorse as Ayers did and still doesn't regret other than he wasn't as successful as he would have liked to have been doing that. The AIP is not advocating harming anybody or destroying everything America stands for. They believe their government has not kept its promises to them and they therefore want to regain control of their own destiny.

I do not see anything on the AIP website that subscribes to anything subversive. The one primary principle in the U.S. Constitution is the belief that the people should govern themselves. I do see the mindset of a group of people who believe that they were not fully informed when they voted for statehood, and that their government has since broken its contract with the people. I agree with them that in many ways it has.

I disagree with them that secession is the best way for them to achieve their goals. I'm certain that Todd and Sarah Palin and most Alaskans also disagree wtih them on that.

I do not need to demonize them to disagree with them, however.

Apparently you do.

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@Foxfyre,

You are full of irrational contradictions.

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What an unbelievable few pages this has been.

Fox, the ACTUAL website - akip.org - has quotes from Voegler on it, such as this one:

Quote:

"The problem with you John Birchers' is that you are too damn liberal!"
~ Joseph Vogler, Founder Alaskan Independence Party

I gave you a Newsweek link, not a Salon one, showing that Palin's political tutelage came from Wally Hirsch, former gov. of AK and a member of the AIP; you have yet to address that point of error on your part, instead pretending that I did not provide you that information.

The whole 'fake website' thing is ridiculous. It certainly isn't in the top results on Google when you look for the AIP.

I think it's been shown over the last few pages, that you have no real defense of Todd Palin's involvement with this anti-American group. And it gives the lie to your useless bleating about Obama's associations. And none of this is really all that surprising, b/c it was never anything but a stupid and transparent tactic for McCain to take, let alone yourself.

Just to be clear: I asked how you felt about the AIP and Palin's involvement with it. You responded that you didn't have a problem with it, and heck, those secessionists weren't all that bad. I then showed you that, counter to your claim, Plain's mentor WAS a member of this party. You then proceeded to fail to respond to that point, while dancing around in circles with your argument for about 2 pages. Predictably, you retreated into accusations of persecution when it became clear that you didn't know what the hell you were talking about.

Do you ever get tired of this game, Fox? Of making bold statements, but not having the evidence to back them up, and then claiming that those who point it out are personally attacking you? It's weak. And unbecoming.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Rant on Debra. Rant on. I am not a liberal so I prefer not to demonize people who think differently than I do but intend me no harm.

Oh really? You demonized the person who wrote the AIP response to a frequently asked question. You characterized that person as a hateful pretender, trying to portray the AIP as a subversive organization whose purpose it was to smear Palin. When we helped you to realize that the quoted section came directly from the AIP website--for which you provided the link--then you flipflopped and began your spin.

You constantly demonize Obama simply because you have programmed yourself to believe that he thinks different than you do. Obama does not intend to harm you, yet you demonize him by portraying him as possibly the most dangerous candidate to ever run for the office of the presidency. You may "prefer" not to demonize Obama, but you DO IT ANYWAY.

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FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

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