29
   

FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2008 09:08 pm
@JamesMorrison,
Who said you couldn't voice your opinion? Show me where I said that? If you have a thin skin or hate to be challenged in what you say, what are you doing here? You didn't even interpret what I wrote correctly, so your ability to discern ideas from my posts will only confuse you.

I wouldn't vote for my brother because he doesn't have either national or international exposure or knowledge that I believe is needed to become veep or president in today's world. It's another thing to have been in Washington DC for several terms where congress members are exposed to those issues. But if you understand the history of this country, very few advance from congress to the presidency. That Pain would claim foreign affairs experience because Russia and Canada are neighbors to her state is about as ignorant as any candidate can claim as "experience." She's way over her head, and she lied about her trade mission to Russia. I don't want a ignoramus and and liar to be in the white house. Those are real simple concepts that seems to escape you.

You probably still don't "get it," but Palin's meetings with some world leaders last week was more photo op than talking about the world issues of our day. Can you figure out why the McCain handlers didn't allow the media people to attend those meets? Maybe not; that's too obvious.

0 Replies
 
barackman28
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2008 10:41 pm
Senator Obama is now Eleven points ahead in Gallup Poll. He will destroy McCain and he will unite the people of our country so that racism will become a dead issue. Millions of people in this country have no idea what good neighbors black and Hispanic peoples can be. They have been mislead by the vicious right wing elitists
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2008 10:57 pm
Focusing still on the single issue that will most likely determine who is our next president:

Dr. Sowell describes himself as more libertarian (small L) than anything, and the last time he mentioned his political ideology, he said he votes as an independent. He also has a PhD in economics.

Quote:
A political ‘solution’ - Part One

By Thomas Sowell
JewishWorldReview

Who was it who said, "crack-brained meddling by the authorities" can "aggravate an existing crisis"? Ronald Reagan? Milton Friedman? Adam Smith? Not even close. It was Karl Marx. Unlike most leftists today, Marx studied economics.

Is the current financial crisis going to lead to crack-brained meddling or to some rational actions? Predicting what politicians are going to do is risky business. We will have to wait and see.

Saints are no more common on Capitol Hill than they are on Wall Street. We can only hope that the political "solution" does not turn out to be worse than the problem.

There are times when government intervention can make things better. But that is no guarantee that it won't make things worse. As they say, "the devil is in the details"" and we don't know the details yet.

Probably most members of Congress don't know the details yet" and many may still not know the details when the time comes for them to vote on this bailout.

Taking an optimistic view, this biggest bailout of all time may stop the problems in financial markets from spreading into the general economy" which is currently nothing like the disaster area that the media portray it to be.

Ninety percent of the people on this planet would exchange their economic situation for ours in a minute. The media love hype, and have been dying to use the word "recession" all year but nothing has happened that meets the definition of a recession.

The American economy is growing, not declining. Our unemployment rate is up to 6 percent but there are countries that would be delighted to get their unemployment rate down to 6 percent. Our inflation rate is up a little but many countries would love to get their inflation rate down to where ours is.

Why then is there such a mess in the financial markets? Much of that mess is due to the very people we are now turning to for solutions" members of Congress.

Past Congresses created the hybrid financial institutions known as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, private institutions with government backing and political influence. About half of the mortgages in this country are backed by these two institutions.

Such institutions" exempt from laws that apply to other financial institutions and backed by the implicit promise of government support with the taxpayers' money" are an open invitation to risky behavior. When these risks blew up in their faces, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were taken over by the government, costing the taxpayers billions of dollars.

For years the Wall Street Journal has been warning that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were taking reckless chances but liberal Democrats especially have pooh-poohed the dangers.

Back in 2002, the Wall Street Journal said: "The time for the political system to focus on Fannie and Fred isn't when we have a housing crisis; by then it will be too late." The hybrid public-and-private nature of these financial giants amounts to "privatizing profit and socializing risk," since taxpayers get stuck with the tab when high-risk finances don't work out.

Similar concerns were expressed in 2003 by N. Gregory Mankiw, then Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers to President Bush. But liberal Democratic Congressman Barney Frank criticized Professor Mankiw, citing "concern for housing" as his reason for supporting Fannie Mae. Barney Frank said that fears about the riskiness of Fannie Mae were "overblown."

Maxine Waters and other members of the Congressional Black Caucus have also been among the liberal Democrats defending Fannie Mae. Just last year, Senator Charles Schumer advocated legislation to allow Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to increase their already huge role in the mortgage market. Republican Congressman Mike Oxley has also defended these hybrid financial giants.

Both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have been generous in their contributions to politicians' political campaigns, so it is perhaps not surprising that politicians have been generous to them.

This is certainly part of "the mess in Washington" that Barack Obama talks about. But don't expect him to clean it up. Franklin Raines, who made mega-millions for himself while mismanaging Fannie Mae into a financial disaster, is one of Obama's advisers.
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell0902308.php3


PART TWO FOLLOWS. . . .
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2008 11:04 pm
@Foxfyre,
The point made here is not which specific plan will make the most sense. The point is who do you trust to manage the 'bail out' once it is bailed out. From what I've heard, the proposed 'panel' to be the watchdog with oversight consists of all foxes who have already attacked the henhouse more than once and they would all be people with other full time jobs who will have little time to be watchdog over much of anything. PLEASE consider carefully what we demand of our elected leaders. It is five weeks until we have a chance to vote them in or out of office.

Demand they get this right.

Quote:
A political ‘solution’, Part II

By Thomas Sowell

JewishWorldReview

Estimates of how much money a government program will cost are notoriously unreliable. Estimates of the cost of the current bailout in the financial markets run into the hundreds of billions of dollars, and some say it may reach or exceed a trillion.

Many people have trouble even forming some notion of what such numbers as billion and trillion mean. One way to get some idea of the magnitude of a trillion is to ask: How long ago was a trillion seconds?

A trillion seconds ago, no one on this planet could read and write. Neither the Roman Empire nor the ancient Chinese dynasties had yet come into existence. None of the founders of the world's great religions today had yet been born.

That's what a trillion means. Put a dollar sign in front of it and that's what the current bailout may cost.

Will that money be spent wisely? It is theoretically possible. But don't bet the rent money on it or you could end up among the homeless.

Whenever there is a lot of the taxpayers' money around, politicians are going to find ways to spend it that will increase their chances of getting re-elected by giving goodies to voters.

The longer it takes Congress to pass the bailout bill, the more of those goodies are going to find their way into the legislation. Speed is important, not just to protect the financial markets but to protect the taxpayers from having more of their hard-earned money squandered by politicians.

Regardless of what Barack Obama or John McCain may say they are going to do as president, after a trillion dollars has been taken off the top there is going to be a lot less left in the federal treasury for them to do anything with.

Already Senator Christopher Dodd is talking about extending the bailout from the financial firms to homeowners facing mortgage foreclosures-- as if the point of all this is to play Santa Claus.

The huge federal debts that we already have are the ghosts of Christmas past.

Financial institutions are not being bailed out as a favor to them or their stockholders. In fact, stockholders have come out worse off after some bailouts.

The real point is to avoid a major contraction of credit that could cause major downturns in output and employment, ruining millions of people, far beyond the financial institutions involved. If it was just a question of the financial institutions themselves, they could be left to sink or swim. But it is not.

We do not need a replay of the Great Depression of the 1930s, when the failure of thousands of banks meant a drastic reduction of credit-- and therefore a drastic reduction of the demand needed to keep production going and millions of people employed.

But bailing out people who made ill-advised mortgages makes no more sense that bailing out people who lost their life savings in Las Vegas casinos. It makes political sense only to people like Senator Dodd, who are among the reasons for the financial mess in the first place.

People usually stop making ill-advised decisions when they are forced to face the consequences of those decisions, not when politicians come to their rescue and make the taxpayers pay for decisions that the taxpayers had nothing to do with.

The Wall Street Journal, which has for years been sounding the alarm about the riskiness of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, recently cited Senator Christopher Dodd along with Senator Charles Schumer and Congressman Barney Frank among those on Capitol Hill who have been "shilling" for these financial institutions, downplaying the risks and opposing attempts to restrict their free-wheeling role in the mortgage market.

As recently as July of this year, Senator Dodd declared Fannie Mae and Freddie "fundamentally strong" and said there is no need for "panicking" about them. But now that the chickens have come home to roost, Senator Dodd wants to be sure to get some goodies from the rescue legislation to pass out to people likely to vote for him.

Don't make any bets on how this situation is going to turn out-- except that we can predict that politicians will blame the "greed" of other people. You can bet the rent money on that.
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell0902408.php3
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2008 11:15 pm
@Foxfyre,
Dodd and Frank should have resigned yesterday. Not only do they not resign, they are so arrogant as to think they have the answers to the problem, and they point fingers at others. These guys are pathetic.
okie
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2008 11:20 pm
@barackman28,
barackman28 wrote:

Senator Obama is now Eleven points ahead in Gallup Poll. He will destroy McCain and he will unite the people of our country so that racism will become a dead issue. Millions of people in this country have no idea what good neighbors black and Hispanic peoples can be. They have been mislead by the vicious right wing elitists

Obama will once again restore hope to the people of the world, and the world will once again respect America. He will talk to everyone, including dictators, and reassure them that America is once again in the hands of good people that care about the common man, the poor and downtrodden, not only here, but all fellow citizens of the world. America will never again torture the innocent, or even the occasional guilty, and America will begin to dismantle the distrust and hatred that it has built up with its irresponsible use of capitalism, greed, and its imperialistic military industrial complex. Corporations will no longer be coddled and favored at the expense of the working man, the common man. People that commit environmental crimes with their greedy corporations will be held to account, for committing crimes against nature, causing global warming, and risking the very health and existence of the only lasting and true possession that we have as world citizens, mother earth. At last, there will be hope for the masses, that escaped abortion, the masses that look to a just and benevolent government that will be its brothers keeper, to solve their problems and provide justice, peace, and happiness, to every one of us. It is up to Mr. Obama to provide it for us. He is the man, he has been sent as the one that is up to the challenge.
barackman28
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2008 11:32 pm
@okie,
I am four square for Senator Obama but the people in my church on the South Side of Chicago have to hold their noses when Barney Frank appears. Those who are unaware can investigate his background. Some years ago, his roommate was cited for running a homosexual house in Barney Frank's basement. Representative Frank said he knew nothing about it!
barackman28
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2008 11:34 pm
@okie,
I am glad to see you are coming around, Okie. I think that you now understand what will happen when we finally see--

BARACK OBAMA--PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2008 11:38 pm
@barackman28,
barackman28 wrote:

I am four square for Senator Obama but the people in my church on the South Side of Chicago have to hold their noses when Barney Frank appears. Those who are unaware can investigate his background. Some years ago, his roommate was cited for running a homosexual house in Barney Frank's basement. Representative Frank said he knew nothing about it!

Yeah and even worse, it was reported this guy worked for Fannie or Freddie, but that maybe he and Barney parted ways or something, so he had to leave and may be working in a pottery barn somewhere?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  3  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2008 11:43 pm
Interesting video re the current financial mess. (You may have to pause it if it goes too fast)


okie
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Sep, 2008 11:57 pm
@Foxfyre,
Good video, it does go a bit fast, but alot of pertinent info, most of which I have seen already. Dems will obfuscate this information to keep the public confused as much as possible, and the Obama friendly press will come up with fluff to counter the charges in an attempt to obfuscate the issue as well. End result, this will have only marginal affect upon polls. It could be dynamite to move alot of voters to McCain if the information could get out there, because alot of people are very angry about this mess.

Have you seen the video of the Fannie exec giving a speech to the Congressional Black Caucus, pandering to them, calling them family, and all of that? Its as if the company was a political organization, not a loan company. Incredible.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 12:16 am
@okie,
Here it is:

0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 12:40 pm
FIVE WEEKS TO GO. . . . .

As of today, Rasmussen has Obama up by 5 - 50 to 45 - which has been fairly consistent since the economic crisis came to a head late last week and also since the debate that has improved the Democrats' fortunes a bit. Those currently saying they will cross party lines to vote for the 'other' candidate are about even, and leanings of independents are inconclusive.

The election may hang in the balance of the outcome of the congressional bailout of financial institutions and how the media is able to spin that to the people. The vice presidential debate Thursday night may also assume much more importance than it otherwise would.

I think it is possible that too few people will bother to watch the next two McCain/Obama debates for those to be much of a factor at this point. The first one was freaking boring offering nothing more than rehearsed campaign soundbites.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 12:44 pm
@Foxfyre,
Agreed, the first debate was boring.

As of today, the house bailout fails. It seems that mostly Republicans voted against it. I think that this is going to be blamed on the house Republicans for holding it up, and on McCain, for inserting politics into the discussion and bollixing up what seemed like a done deal.

Republicans are doing their damndest to blame Pelosi for the failure of most of the Republicans to vote for the bill - what a crock.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 12:49 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
133 republicans voted against it; doesn't make McCain look very good as a "leader."
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 01:05 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

It seems that mostly Republicans voted against it. I think that this is going to be blamed on the house Republicans for holding it up, ....
Cycloptichorn

Or the credit, cyclops. Lots of people, and I mean lots of people are irate at Congress for mismanagment and fraud perpetrated on this country.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  3  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 01:08 pm
Depends. The reason so many backed off the original $700 bailout deal was the avalanche of angry faxes, letters, telephone calls, e-mails, text messages etc. etc. etc. that was flooding into their local and Washington offices. The general public did NOT want a bailout of incompetent financial institutions.

The act that started the ball rolling toward the current mess was passed and exacerbated in Democratic administrations and attempts to fix it were stopped by Barney Frank led Democrats plus vigorous lobby efforts in 2003. (Yes the Republicans could have overridden the Democrats at that time, but without bipartisan support, it would have crashed the market at a time when we were just beginning to climb out of the 9/11 deepened recession.)

A pretty good condensed mini-history is outlined here:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/the_financial_mess_how_we_got.html


Quote:
WASHINGTON - The House on Monday defeated a $700 billion emergency rescue for the nation's financial system, ignoring urgent warnings from President Bush and congressional leaders of both parties that the economy could nosedive into recession without it.

Stocks plummeted on Wall Street even before the 228-205 vote to reject the bill was announced on the House floor.

Bush and a host of leading congressional figures had implored the lawmakers to pass the legislation despite howls of protest from their constituents back home. Despite pressure from supporters, not enough members were willing to take the political risk just five weeks before an election.

Ample no votes came from both the Democratic and Republican sides of the aisle. More than two-thirds of Republicans and 40 percent of Democrats opposed the bill.

The overriding question for congressional leaders was what to do next. Congress has been trying to adjourn so that its members can go out and campaign. And with only five weeks left until Election Day, there was no clear indication of whether the leadership would keep them in Washington. Leaders were huddling after the vote to figure out their next steps

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown_1543

Speaking of leadership, however, this was a Democrat designed bill that they voted on this morning and the Democrats had plenty of votes to pass it if every Republican had voted against it. 40% of the Democrats didn't. So where was Obama's leadership? Pelosi's?
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 01:12 pm
@Foxfyre,
And the dems that voted against it are also afraid of not being re-elected. This is a bomb that has been set off, and time will only tell us which nominee benefits, but I have a very tough time believing it could be Obama, unless the press lies through its teeth and gets away with it.

I don't think today's polls tell us anything about what will happen in this election. This crisis could be the game breaker.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 01:12 pm
@Foxfyre,
Never mind that we had a republican administration and 75% of the time republican congress....for the past eight years.
okie
 
  2  
Reply Mon 29 Sep, 2008 01:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, but not enough conservatives, ci, to carry the day. Congress has been an absolute bust since the 90's.
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 11/25/2024 at 06:53:45