FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

Never fear Okie. We KNOW we are winning when the only ammo they have is ad hominem, overt personal insults, and using partisan talking points BS to attack the opposition. The did too--did not and 'whose is blackest' arguments are in full force, and man they're slinging it in spades today huh? I think the backlash against all the hateful slime thrown at Sarah Palin plus Joe Biden emulating a walking gaffe machine the last few days is bringing a lot desperation to the surface just about everywhere.

We don't need to worry until they start making rational arguments again.

Fox, it's ridiculous for you to claim that all the Obama campaign 'has' is attacks on Palin.

You don't seem to realize that we've already won policy arguments. Palin and Personality are all McCain has left, he cannot win on the issues. And Obama has been going on about the issues since last Monday, when the banking crisis heated up; he hasn't said a word about the airhead Palin.

My guess is that you numbskulls are going to KNOW that you are winning - right up until the minute you lose, horribly. And then you will blame the media, or the Dems for lying, or anything but the failure of Conservatism and yourselves.

Cycloptichorn

Anyway--Media are left-wing by definition. Look at their attitude to intelligent design and Creationism.

They see themselves as the new priests. With an anti-Christian message reading "Indulge thyself". And such a message is wasted on the right because they are surfeited on the indulgencies Media peddles.

Media knows Mr Obama is a bit scared of them whereas I shouldn't think Honest John is scared of any ******.

Please show where I said that all the Obama campaign has is attacks on Palin. I've never ever even suggested that.

You can't win policy arguments just by asserting that you've won. You can't win elections by just asserting that the other guy has lost. It would be nice, but rational people know better.

And puleeeeze, I've been listening to Obama as much as you have, and he is as full of BS and hot air as much as any politician is.

McCain supporters are mostly in agreement that is this Obama's election to lose, but probably most are pleased to see that Obama and his team are doing their damndest to lose it. As far as the failure of Conservatism goes, Conservatism has worked every time it has been tried which probably explains why Obama is trying to sound like a conservative even more than President Bush and John McCain the last few days.

Maybe he chose Mrs Palin because she is a soul-mate in that regard.

Maybe. Some people try to make their arguments based on substance. And some try to pretend they are arguing on substance.

All politicians tend to do a bit of both, but you always hope that their disciples will know the difference.

Foxfyre: "hateful slime thrown at Sarah Palin"

The TRUTH is hateful slime?

When is your paragon of virtue, Sarah Palin, going to come out of hiding, answer probing questions, and expose her ignorant extremism for the whole world to see? If she's truly the intelligent, capable woman--with nothing to hide--that you believe her to be, WHY IS SHE HIDING?

Thanks Debra. And on that, I rest my case.

All this parroting of what you've read in the paper is a complete waste of time. Are you trying to avoid plumbing the meaning of this election.

I used to allow my Jaguar to be used by a candidate on election day. I had to take it to the Party Headquarters for the ladies to decorate it with flags and bunting and stuff. They got so absorbed in the decorating that they clean forgot there was an election on. It was simply a novel way of passing the time. We have short elections here. Over there it looks to be part of the daily chores.

It means you are electing someone to pass the debts on further down the line. Or up if you prefer. Anybody suggesting you pay them yourselves wouldn't get past the ward committe Primary.

Wow, that's Odd. Obama is winning both the national polls and has a lead in the state polling. Palin's favorability numbers have tanked. Obama's have risen. McCain just had what was universally regarded as a terrible week. And he's 'doing his damnedest' to lose the election? How do you figure?



Oh, I get it. When you said 'all THEY have,' what you meant were a bunch of people posting on a message board. As if that has any bearing as to whether or not Obama is winning or losing the race. C'mon Fox.

We've already shown that McCain is a liar. We've shown that his economic plans don't add up to his promises. We've shown that he has a poor understanding of world affairs. We've shown that he's a hot-head who makes rash decisions. We've shown that he has a poor understanding of domestic policy. We've shown that he has no understanding of women's issues at all. We've shown that he is corrupt. We've shown that his campaign is ran by the lobbyists he claims he's against. We've shown that he has flip-flopped on every single issue. We've shown that he often changes his tune on issues on the same day, sometimes within the hour. We've shown that he is old and at a great risk of dying compared to the average president. We've shown that he is easily confused by details and complicated situations. We've shown that he abandoned any morals he might have had, by hiring Bush's team - the ones who slimed him in 2000 - to run his campaign. We've shown that he's a scumbag who cheated on his wife to marry a rich beer heiress, who then funded his whole political career. We've shown that he will continue the Bush administration's plans in every possible way. We've shown that he represents no real change or reform in Washington whatsoever.

Now, we're busy showing that his VP pick - Palin - is as much of a fool as he is. We're showing that she is a power-abuser. We're showing that she is a liar. We're showing that she doesn't know anything at all about foreign policy. We're showing that she's too cowardly to talk to the press. And you call that 'desperation?'

I can provide links and analysis for every one of those claims, upon request.

You and other McCain supporters have abandoned any pretense of even forwarding policy arguments any longer. You never argue a pro-mccain position on any policy, Fox, and neither does any other Conservative here. You don't seem to realize that you spend the majority of your time knocking Obama, the very thing you accuse the other side of doing. And that's a sign that you and other Conservatives here know that you will lose the policy arguments, have already lost them, and forwarding them is a losing proposition as well.

Face it; when Rick Davis said a couple of weeks ago, 'hey, this campaign is going to be about personalities, not about issues'; it was an admission by your side that if you can't distract people from the actual events which are going on, from actual issues facing Americans today, you're screwed. The polling reflects this and no amount of assertion on your part will change anyone's belief that this is the truth.

Cycloptichorn

You shouldn't rest your case on this Foxy-



I offered a reason. I didn't say it was true but she was chosen. That's substance. And it was a mighty surprise. And it's really too silly to say that Mr McCain just likes surprising people.

And I can see why she might have been chosen by a man with Mr McCain's experience. If our rulers were expected to be as Debra implies they ought to be I wouldn't like to hazard a guess where we would be now. It wouldn't be here and you can bet on that. Debra is merely stating what characteristics are superior. One can usually presume she feels she has them herself.

It is a bald assertion. Covered in snow of course.

You have no "case." Again, I perceive a whine. Where's that PITBULL you promised us? Are you saying she's scared of me and can't come out of hiding? That's one heck of a pitbull you've been advertising. Again, why isn't she following her own advice? Why doesn't she push through the criticism, work harder, face the press, and IMPRESS us with her intelligence and awesome capabilities that you're bragging about?

Spendi, you feel the American people should elect someone a leader, without there ever being any sort of questioning of that person, or explanation of their worldview at all? That we should just take it on trust that Grandpa John knows what he's doing?

I don't think you really understand the American system very well.

Cycloptichorn

Not quite Cyclo- I think that too much questioning has caused the quality of the candidates to be what it is. Media run that because the dynamics of it means that Media chooses the candidates. I've explained it all before.

I'm inclined to think that nobody knows what they are doing except waiting for the phone to ring.

Yeah, like I said, you don't understand how things work over here.

In other news,

McCain today held a 'press conference,' one in which he took about three questions, to outline his 'plan' for the crisis we currently face.

His plan consisted of: parroting Obama's already announced plan, minus any actual specifics as to how things will be done. And he had to read the plan off of a sheet, because he didn't have it memorzied.



What the hell is wrong with you Conservatives, that makes you think this guy could be our leader, and nothing would go wrong?

Cycloptichorn

Fox,
I guess I like McCain because he feels strongly about righting wrongs. Even though I denigrate him some what for that perceived "weakness" it is just that --my perception. McCain is the best man for the job but he has to get the job first and that is why I become frustrated by some of his antics where he breaks Mark Twain's rule: Tis better to remain silent (Obama like) and let people think you are ignorant than to open one's mouth (McCain like)and remove all doubt. Mitt would certainly have looked and sounded more presidential but he had a past of introducing socialized health care and flip-floping on the abortion thing in Taxachusetts--he seemed a phony. Despite McCain's rough edges you pretty much know what you’re getting, and so would Russia, Iran, and DPRK. This would make our dealings with these entities more realistic and easier in the long run. Diplomacy, sure, but we have seen the result of diplomacy with Iran sans Rooseveltian "Big Sticks" and it has been an utter failure. We and Europe talk and the Iranians talk and simultaneously enrich their uranium (This is a much bigger and more dangerous problem than Russia).

Obama, alternatively, just seems to quietly and pensively triangulate, sticking a wet finger into the political wind to get a better sense of how to please the electorate. This doesn't look like what a leader should do. What happens when Obama gets in the white house? Will he only pay attention to selected advisors or will he bend to the political pressure of say a bunch of Mom's led by Cindy Sheehan and MoveON.org? Who will he try to please next?

McCain's inner compass always points to the well being of America first. I just cannot be sure exactly what change we will get with Obama . I can only hope it will work for the best of all Americans.

JM

Cyclops, Debra, and C.I. and any Obama supporters

As a supporter of McCain I have discussed both my likes and dislikes of my man. May I respectfully request that you condense your likes and dislikes of Obama?

JM

there was a thread exactly to this effect a few months back - let me see if I can find it.



WTF? MoveOn and Sheehan have had zero effect upon Obama's voting record. In fact, he voted for Iraq funding several times, over both of those group's objections. Same thing for the FISA bill. Both times, the groups were pissed as hell. Where do you get this stuff? Do you just make it up?


I don't know where you got the information to make such a judgment; I think it's clearly obvious that McCain always points to the well-being of.. John McCain. Was his compass pointing towards the well-being of America during the Keating scandal?

Cycloptichorn

Not a chance.

This is a great question. Let's see if it gets any responses from the Obama camp.