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FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

 
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 03:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I never said you claimed to understand politics. That would be a riduculous thing for me to say. I said you gave the impression you do by the method I suggested. To the back row of the first year infant's D stream I mean. It is an implied claim to understand concepts when one says someone else doesn't.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 03:36 pm
@spendius,
spendi, You don't understand logic at all, do you? LOL
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 04:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Obama today in NM -

Quote:
[McCain] has consistently opposed the sorts of common sense regulations that might have lessened the current crisis. When I was warning about the danger ahead on Wall Street months ago because of the lack of oversight, Senator McCain was telling the Wall Street Journal -- and I quote -- "I'm always for less regulation."

Except now, with the magnitude of the crisis apparent even to the Bush White House, John McCain wants to reverse course. Now, all of a sudden, he's unleashed an angry tirade against all the insiders and lobbyists who've supported him for twenty-six years -- the same folks who run his campaign.

On Monday, he said the economy was fundamentally sound, and he was fundamentally wrong.

On Tuesday, he said the government should stand by and allow one of the nation's largest insurers to collapse, putting the well-being of millions of Americans at risk. But by Wednesday, he changed his mind.

He said he would take on the ol' boy network, but he seemed to forget that he took seven of the biggest lobbyists in Washington from that network and put them in charge of your campaign.

John McCain can't decide whether he's Barry Goldwater or Dennis Kucinich.


Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 04:08 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cyclo, I think your post flew way over spendi's head. LOL
McGentrix
 
  3  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 04:10 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Obama today in NM -

On Monday, he said the economy was fundamentally sound, and he was fundamentally wrong.


Liberals love a pessimist.

Quote:
On Tuesday, he said the government should stand by and allow one of the nation's largest insurers to collapse, putting the well-being of millions of Americans at risk. But by Wednesday, he changed his mind.


So did Obama.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 04:14 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Obama today in NM -

On Monday, he said the economy was fundamentally sound, and he was fundamentally wrong.


Liberals love a pessimist.

Quote:
On Tuesday, he said the government should stand by and allow one of the nation's largest insurers to collapse, putting the well-being of millions of Americans at risk. But by Wednesday, he changed his mind.


So did Obama.


No, he didn't. McCain specifically spoke out against a bail-out, then supported it. Obama did not do that; though I agree he waffled a little bit when first asked the question.

A good speech by Obama.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 04:17 pm
@McGentrix,
McG, Quit lying. Here's what "really" happened:
Quote:

McCain, Obama war over economy

1 day ago

GUSTAVUS, Ohio (AFP) " Republican White House hopeful John McCain and his Democratic rival Barack Obama warred Wednesday over who would best repair the ailing US economy after the government's huge AIG bailout.

Just over six weeks until the November 4 presidential elections, both candidates sought to seize the upper hand on the stricken economy, the top concern among US voters.

Obama said the US government's 85-billion dollar lifeline to insurance giant American International Group was "the final verdict on the failed economic philosophy of the last eight years."

And in his statement the Illinois senator, 47, lashed out at McCain, 72, who once advocated deregulating the insurance and finance sectors.

"Despite his eleventh hour conversion to the language of reform, Senator McCain has subscribed to this philosophy for twenty-six years in Washington and the events of this week have rendered it a colossal failure.

"It is time for a new economic strategy, guided by the principle that America prospers when all Americans prosper, where common-sense rules of the road ensure that competition is fair, open, and honest," Obama said.

McCain also blasted US regulatory agencies, blaming them for creating the conditions which led to the rescue of the American International Group late Tuesday under which the US government takes a 79.9 percent stake in the company.

"These actions stem from failed regulation, reckless management, and a casino culture on Wall Street that has crippled one of the most important companies in America," McCain said in a statement.

The Arizona senator also repeated his call for a panel of experts to be brought together to study the crisis as he warned that struggling companies should not expect to be rescued at every crisis.

"We must not bailout the management and speculators who created this mess. They had months of warnings following the Bear Stearns debacle, and they failed to act," he said.

AIG, founded in 1919 with 74 million clients in 130 countries, had appeared to be in a death spiral after more than a week of turmoil on financial markets, that led to the failure of investment giant Lehman Brothers and the sale of Wall Street rival Merrill Lynch.

It also came just nine days after the US government nationalized two other giants of the financial system, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, drowning from the collapse of the US real estate market.

In a new Obama TV spot, which his campaign said was airing on national cable and in battleground states, Obama vowed to unite left and right in a common mission to rescue the economy.

"In the past few weeks, Wall Street's been rocked as banks closed and markets tumbled," the Illinois senator said, speaking directly to the camera in a presidential-style address lasting two minutes.

"But for many of you -- the people I've met in town halls, backyards and diners across America -- our troubled economy isn't news," he said.

Noting that 600,000 Americans have lost their jobs this year as incomes stagnate, prices rise and home values slump, Obama said in the ad: "This isn't just a string of bad luck.

"The truth is that while you've been living up to your responsibilities, Washington has not. That's why we need change. Real change."

McCain meanwhile told ABC that he had disagreed with the AIG rescue, saying: "On the bailout itself, I didn't want to do that.

"But there were literally millions of people whose retirement, whose investments, whose insurance were at risk here, and they were going to have their lives destroyed because of the greed and excess and corruption."

McCain, who has argued that US economic fundamentals are strong, also told ABC a panel of US experts could help find answers to strains on the US economy and financial system.

"You need to get the best minds in America together. I mean, this is a crisis. This is one of the most severe crises in modern times," McCain said.

Critics, though, have widely slammed his idea of creating a commission, along the lines of the one which investigated the September 11 attacks, as little more than a talking-shop.


Be honest; do you or any conservative know where McCain stands on anything?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 04:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
McG, If you would be so kind as to articulate for us what McCain's real message is, many of us "liberals" would really appreciate it. I, for one, am confused by his flip-flops on most of the major issues of our day.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 04:34 pm
The local news in AK is doing a great job reporting on the Troopergate scandal.

http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=9030139

Quote:
McCain-Palin campaign accused of co-opting Department of Law
by Jason Moore
Wednesday, Sept. 17, 2008

ANCHORAGE, Alaska-- The battle over subpoenas issued to Palin administration officials raged on Wednesday, with accusations that the John McCain-Sarah Palin campaign has co-opted the state Department of Law.

There was reaction from the head of the Legislative Council, a day after Attorney General Talis Colberg announced state workers will not comply with subpoenas in the Legislature's investigation.

Legislative Council Chair Sen. Kim Elton accused the attorney general of breaking his word on a deal the attorney general proposed. And Colberg's rejection of the subpoenas is prompting allegations that the McCain-Palin campaign has taken over the state's Department of Law.

Days before investigator Steve Branchflower appeared before lawmakers seeking subpoenas in his probe into the governor's firing of Walt Monegan, the attorney general made an offer to Elton to protect state workers from criminal prosecution if they had looked at personnel files.

Senior Assistant Attorney General Mike Barnhill wrote to Elton on Sept. 9, saying, "If the legislative council will acknowledge in writing its agreement with the department of law's interpretation, the department of law will drop its objections and the depositions may proceed without subpoenas."

Then after the hearing with Branchflower, Elton wrote back to the Department of Law agreeing.

I stipulate in my role as a chair of the Legislative Council and on behalf of the council that your interpretation of the law is correct," Elton wrote.

Elton thought he had a deal until Tuesday night when Colberg announced state workers will not testify. Colberg did not cite any legal reason for ignoring the subpoenas.

And after the announcement, officials said Colberg hopped on a plane to Kansas for a vacation.


"It appears that the department is in complete disarray," said Sen. Bill Wielechowski. "It appears that the McCain campaign is co-opting our Department of Law and basically calling the shots and I think that's pretty clear from some of the actions we've seen over the past couple of days."

In a letter to Colberg Wednesday from Elton, Elton accuses Colberg of compromising the investigation.

"In four paragraphs, you've broken a deal that was accepted by your office and received by Mr.Branchflower after the Senate Judiciary Committee issued subpoenas," Elton writes. "Further your brand new position eviscerates weeks of comments on the record by several parties, including the governor."

The governor's office issued an additional statement Wednesday evening that said "the department of law remains separate and will continue to remain separate from the presidential /vice presidential campaign."

The House and Senate Judiciary committees are scheduled to meet Friday to discuss the status of the investigation.

Contact Jason Moore at [email protected]


The AG announces that nobody is cooperating, and then gets the hell out of town? At a critical time like this?

lol

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 04:54 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Wow, what an interesting story. So get this. Jason Moore, the guy who wrote the above piece, is getting harassed by the McCain campaign:

Quote:
McCain Press Aide Calls Alaska Reporter At Home To Complain About Unfavorable Coverage
By Zachary Roth - September 18, 2008, 6:03PM

Here's a little more evidence that the McCain-Palin campaign is playing the hardest of hardball on Trooper-Gate -- especially in regard to press relations.

Jason Moore, a reporter with Anchorage-based KTUU-TV, just confirmed to TPMmuckraker that Megan Stapleton, a spokeswoman for the McCain-Palin campaign in Alaska, called his home to complain about one of Moore's news reports, and accused Moore of calling Stapleton and another McCain staffer liars.

Moore's report looked at the McCain-Palin campaign's "Truth Squad," an aggressive Alaska-based public relations campaign that's being led by Stapleton and former federal prosecutor Ed O'Callaghan and is designed to help thwart the Trooper-Gate investigation.

Moore reported that the Truth Squad was not always entirely truthful itself. He noted that Stapleton had said in a Friday press conference that it was Hollis French, the Democrat overseeing the investigation, who had pulled one name, that of former Palin chief of staff Mike Tibbles, off the list of witnesses to receive subpoenas. Stapleton had pointed to this as an inappropriate political maneuver by French.

But in fact, Moore reported, it was GOP Rep. Jay Ramras, a McCain supporter, who took Tibbles' name off the list. Moore quoted Ramras saying so.

Stapleton and O'Callaghan have another "Truth Squad" press conference scheduled for 7pm EST tonight.

Moore told TPMmuckraker that he and Stapleton -- who was a press aide to Palin before eventually moving over to the McCain campaign -- used to work together as co-anchors on KTUU. "We're friends," he said.

When Stapleton called his home, said Moore, she reached Moore's wife, and immediately told her: "Your husband just called two Hoyas liars." Stapleton, O'Callaghan, and Moore's wife all attended Georgetown University, whose mascot is the Hoyas.

Moore added that Stapleton had also called the news director of KTUU to complain.

Asked whether he and Stapleton really remained friends, Moore allowed: "It hasn't been too friendly this week."


http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/mccain_press_aide_calls_alaska.php

Harassment of reporters? What is going on with the McCain campaign?

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 05:01 pm
Presented sans comment.



Cycloptichorn
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 05:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,
c.i. wrote-

Quote:
Cyclo, I think your post flew way over spendi's head.


I go to great pains to ensure that anything that doesn't mean anything does exactly that c.i.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 05:31 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Let's face it, McCain is showing his senility - again.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Thu 18 Sep, 2008 06:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Not to mention a brazen disrespect for the law.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jOTk11gvqDAgD0cY3i4WjI_2YOxwD939EM6O0

Quote:
ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) " Todd Palin is refusing to testify in an abuse-of-power investigation into his wife, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

Palin had been subpoenaed to appear Friday before Alaska lawmakers to testify as to whether Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan was fired because he refused to dismiss a state trooper who had gone through a bitter divorce with Sarah Palin’s sister.

McCain-Palin spokesman Ed O’Callaghan said Thursday that Todd Palin no longer believes the Legislature’s investigation is legitimate.


First of all, why is the McCain campaign the one reporting this news?

Second, how can a private citizen just up and decide that the Legislature's investigation is no longer legitimate? And expect to use that as a defense for not showing up? This isn't a member of the government or ANY of that weak sauce that the Republicans have tried to use at the Federal level in the last year or so to avoid legal subpoena's.

I mean, this is like refusing to show up to court. But where you and I would get arrested by the police for not showing up, and dragged in to court to appear, Todd Palin will not; not because he has legally challenged the subpoena in court, but because he has decided not to, and his wife runs the state, so she will instruct the cops not to arrest him and drag him into court.

F*cking unbelievable that things have come to this. I never thought I would see such disrespect for the law in America in my lifetime, by people who are purporting to be respected national figures and leaders of our nation. If anyone needed any other reason, any other piece of proof, to show that the McCain administration would be no different then the Bush administration, here it is.

Cycloptichorn
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Sep, 2008 08:13 am
@Cycloptichorn,
This is another example of McCain's insane penchant for holding grudges.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Sep, 2008 08:18 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote: "Not to mention a brazen disrespect for the law."

McCain and Palin are firmly establishing themselves into the unitary imperial executive branch that operates above the law.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Sep, 2008 08:25 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Does Todd Palin work for the state of Alaska? How would he be involved in this in any form?

I beleive there is some law about forcing a spouse to testify against his/her spouse isn't there? Surely Debra law could explain that one to us. If not, you can find info here.

This has become nothing more then a Dem witch hunt and you can tell by the way it's making Cyc drool that that is all is is now. So, Todd Palin is correct when he says he no longer believes the Legislature’s investigation is legitimate.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Fri 19 Sep, 2008 08:41 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Does Todd Palin work for the state of Alaska? How would he be involved in this in any form?

I beleive there is some law about forcing a spouse to testify against his/her spouse isn't there? Surely Debra law could explain that one to us. If not, you can find info here.

This has become nothing more then a Dem witch hunt and you can tell by the way it's making Cyc drool that that is all is is now. So, Todd Palin is correct when he says he no longer believes the Legislature’s investigation is legitimate.



McG,

Todd Palin is involved, because he had personal conversations pressuring the guy to fire Wooten. Please read the background of the case before commenting.

You call this a 'Dem witch hunt,' but it was started by the REPUBLICAN legislature in AK; the subpoenas were authorized by the REPUBLICAN dominated committee there. Then, that same REPUBLICAN committee declined to turn the investigation over to the AG of AK. What a bunch of crap, 'witch hunt,' my ass. The investigation also began months before McCain selected Palin. So to claim it's just a 'partisan witch hunt' is BS and you know it.

You can't just declare something a 'witch hunt' and not show up, it's against the law!

Cycloptichorn
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Sep, 2008 08:56 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I said it has BECOME a witch hunt. I can tell by the way you are reacting to it. You are a very good barometer for these types of things.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Sep, 2008 08:59 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

I said it has BECOME a witch hunt. I can tell by the way you are reacting to it. You are a very good barometer for these types of things.


I don't care what your OPINION of it is, the law is the law. You can't just decide not to show up for a subpoena. These people are brazenly violating the law in AK, because Palin controls the cops.

Cycloptichorn
 

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