FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

@cicerone imposter,

That's exactly what is happening right before your eyes, McCain & Palin win despite liberal lies and innuendos.

@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

I offered a discussion on taxes and economic policy. It was ignored. I offered a discussion on health care and nobody was interested in the nitty gritty on that.

No, you were engaged, but the discussion could not get off the ground because we don't agree on what constitutes a credible source. "My side" (that's quite an ass-umption you're making) has started numerous threads on issues. Just because it's not in this countdown thread doesn't mean it doesn't exist. "My side" has been pointing out Obama's substantial policy positions since February only to be repeatedly accosted by the "he has no substance" canard. So spare me your outrage.

It's hard to spare outrage that doesn't exist. You took a swipe at the McCain supporters. I countered with my perspective as I see it. I am aware that there are many other threads. This happens to be the one the discussion was taking place on, however, and is unrelated to the content of other threads. And yes, 'my side' does rebut what 'your side' portrays as substantial when 'my side' feels that such substance is either wrong headed, misguided, unsupportable, and/or without

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

You took a swipe at the McCain supporters.

Nope. I called it as I see it and I was speaking specifically about the campaign and yourself, not McCain supporters in general. And I stand by it.

0 Replies

@H2O MAN,

Yeah, and I hope they win on all of their "truths." The people who vote for them will have consumer remorse very quickly.

0 Replies

@FreeDuck,

FreeDuck wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

I offered a discussion on taxes and economic policy. It was ignored. I offered a discussion on health care and nobody was interested in the nitty gritty on that.

No, you were engaged, but the discussion could not get off the ground because we don't agree on what constitutes a credible source. "My side" (that's quite an ass-umption you're making) has started numerous threads on issues. Just because it's not in this countdown thread doesn't mean it doesn't exist. "My side" has been pointing out Obama's substantial policy positions since February only to be repeatedly accosted by the "he has no substance" canard. So spare me your outrage.

It's hard to spare outrage that doesn't exist and has not been expressed in this context. Again your perception misses the mark on what is being expressed; however. . . .

You took a swipe at the McCain supporters. I countered with my perspective as I see it. You don't like my perspective. I can accept that with no problem.

I am also aware that there are many other threads. This happens to be the one the discussion was taking place on, however, and is unrelated to the content of other threads. And yes, 'my side' does rebut what 'your side' portrays as substantial when 'my side' feels that such policy position is either wrong headed, misguided, unsupportable, unbelievable, and/or without substance.

Without going back and doing a full analysis, it is my perception that any attempt to discuss policy position of Obama's frequently--maybe most often-- results in a leftwing barrage of snotty attacks on Bush, McCain and now Palin. Any attempt to discuss a policy position of McCain's results in much the same.

Travelling between appointments this morning, I listened to a clip of Barack Obama lamenting much the same thing this morning. He WANTS to discuss the issues and again ticked off his long laundry list of them. But his own rhetoric lately has been mostly pointing out how bad the Republicans are and complaing about criticisms about himself. He doesn't believe in leading by example I guess.''

You know I think that many folks don't have a clue what works and doesn't work in government and they are unable to articulate a reasoned argument for any issue on its own merits. Therefore what they do is express how bad things are, how much of a failure the current administration and/or the GOP is and McCain/Palin offer nothing better or vice versa. They don't care whether their candidate is actually able to fix anything or not. The primary motive seems to be to punish somebody.

I guess if they feel like they accomplished that, they will feel righteous and conclude that their job is done.

So again, get us started here. What can we discuss. I did offer this before:

If. . . .

The person earning 1,000,000 pays 100,000 in taxes.
The person earning 500,000 pays 50,000 in taxes
The person earning 100,000 pays 10,000 in taxes
The person earning 50,000 pays 5,000 in taxes
The person earning 10,000 pays 1,000 in taxes
The person earning 1,000 pays 100 in taxes . . . .

How is that not fair? How would each candidate answer that question?

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

CI wrote: "They are very important, but the conservatives have chosen to forget about facts and ethics. I hope McCain/Palin wins the presidency, because that will destroy their party for the foreseeable future. They must hit bottom before people realizes the real personal pain of what they have wrought, and this is the only way they will learn that lesson. It seems that the eight years after Bush with all the problems that are obvious to most, they seem to be blind to them, and want more of the same. Their choice."

The Republican party already hit rock bottom long ago. Although McCain has reinvented himself with lies and hijacked Obama's message of change--the real McCain merely offers the people of this country the same failed policies of the Bush Administration. The only place left for the Republican Party to go is into the flames of hell--and I think that's fine for THEM if that's what they want. The problem, however, is that they want to drag the rest of us along as they walk down the path of insanity.

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Quote:

So again, get us started here. What can we discuss. I did offer this before:

If. . . .

The person earning 1,000,000 pays 100,000 in taxes.
The person earning 500,000 pays 50,000 in taxes
The person earning 100,000 pays 10,000 in taxes
The person earning 50,000 pays 5,000 in taxes
The person earning 10,000 pays 1,000 in taxes
The person earning 1,000 pays 100 in taxes . . . .

How is that not fair? How would each candidate answer that question?

Easy answer. The smaller your overall income, the more of it you need to keep just to meet the basic needs of living in our society. The larger your income, the less of it you need to keep in order to meet the basic needs.

Let's double your amount on the top payer: 1 million, pays 200k in taxes, still has 800k left. You cry 'unfair!' But 800k is a shitload of money to be making per year. It means you can outright buy two 200k houses per year, two 50k cars per year, eat all the food you want, take all the vacations you want, have access to the best education and health care for your kids, and STILL be putting more then 100k per year in the bank for retirement.

On the other hand, as someone who makes 50k per year, 5k is a lot to take out! It's hard to make ends meet as it is, thanks to inflation, let alone have meaningful savings put away. Those at the upper end of the scale literally don't need their money as much as the lower end of the scale, and at the same time have more to protect; this necessitates more payments to support the system which gives them that money.

Think of taxes as insurance. You pay taxes to insure that the country doesn't fail. Like most insurance policies, the larger amount you have, the more you pay to insure it. The more you have to lose, the more it costs to protect it. Not a difficult concept. And at the end of the day, the rich are still rich under higher taxes, the poor are still poor even with lower taxes, and the middle class still has a hard time getting anywhere.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Replied here: http://able2know.org/topic/122273-1

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

But when Joe Biden himself says that alcohol killed his wife, and that the truck driver had stopped and "drank his lunch", even thought ALL of the accident investigations showed that alcohol was NOT a factor, thats on him.
His supporters arent saying it, he is...

http://able2know.org/topic/121914-1

The link is there to the newspaper article, along with quotes from that article.

Quote:

Please compare apples and apples; please list the lies and innuendos by McCain and Obama vs Palin and Biden. You do understand "consistency" don't you?

You really want me to go there?
Do it yourself, go to factcheck.org and you will see the lies and innuendo's from BOTH sides.
Are you now going to say that factcheck.org is not a reputable site, or are you saying that the dem camp is not telling any lies or using innuendo at all?

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

This can't help Obama

http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/2007_09_29OprahObama1.jpg

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

Nice picture; how was it "boycotted?"

Oh, it was the GOP who boycotted the show. That's to be expected by the children of the GOP.

0 Replies

Drill Baby Drill!

Sell Baby Sell!

Drill it and Sell it to Japan!

I've posted this elsewhere, but think the message is worth repeating:

The Bush Administration has approved the export of natural gas--enough gas to heat the homes of 1.4 million Americans--to Japan and other pacific rim areas.

Wyden Challenges Order Authorizing Export of Alaskan Natural Gas

http://wyden.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=302677&

Excerpt from Senator Wyden's letter to Department of Energy:

Quote:

On June 3, 2008 and July 30, 2008 respectively, your Department issued and affirmed an order pursuant to Section 3 of the Natural Gas Act that will allow two major integrated oil companies " ConocoPhillips and Marathon Oil " to export 98.1 billion cubic feet of Alaskan natural gas to Japan and other Pacific Rim countries. This order, which will allow the export of as much natural gas as is used by 1.4 million American families in a year, comes at a time when the President had demanded that the moratoria on oil and gas drilling along our environmentally-sensitive coastal areas be lifted and Americans are being warned that their winter heating bills are going to be dramatically higher. The Administration is trying to have it both ways " arguing that we need to drill everywhere because we don’t have adequate energy supplies, while finding that we have so much energy that big oil companies can export it overseas and keep prices here at home higher than they would otherwise be. On its face, the order that Department has issued to allow the continued export of Alaskan natural gas does not meet the public interest test required by the Natural Gas Act and I respectfully request that you review and revoke it.

2 Replies

@Debra Law,

Yes, it provides jobs. Are you against jobs?

0 Replies

@Debra Law,

It's a free market - It's a world market.

Increase the world supply and the price for everyone goes down.
Decrease the world supply and the price goes up for everyone.

Got it?

2 Replies

@H2O MAN,

Where in the world did you learn economics? Russia?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Are you serious?

Your credibility has sunk to all time lows.

0 Replies

I want to know how it is possible for Alaskan natural gas to be shipped half-way across the world, but impossible for it to be shipped down to the lower 48 states in order to increase our supply and thus lower our costs for heating our homes this winter?

2 Replies

@Debra Law,

Are you really a lawyer? Shocked

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

Prove this claim through your expertise in economics, and why this holds "true?"

Quote:

Increase the world supply and the price for everyone goes down.
Decrease the world supply and the price goes up for everyone.

Got it?

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

In case you haven't heard, Sarah Palin is building a natural gas pipeline from Alaska down here, this after her predecessors all failed.

1 Reply

FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

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