old europe
 
  4  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 09:23 pm
@joefromchicago,
Yup, that's what the article said.

It also said that "Republicans U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens and U.S. Rep. Don Young championed the project through Congress two years ago, securing more than $200 million in funds for the bridge between Ketchikan, on Revillagigedo Island, and Gravina Island."

Sooo... doesn't that mean that those $200 million were added to Alaska's total allocation?
JTT
 
  -1  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 09:23 pm
@joefromchicago,
Me neither. They needed that and a lot more paper to suck up the reminder of the Exxon Valdez oil spill.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 09:35 pm
@old europe,
old europe wrote:
Sooo... doesn't that mean that those $200 million were added to Alaska's total allocation?

No.
old europe
 
  1  
Fri 29 Aug, 2008 09:37 pm
@joefromchicago,
Okay.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  4  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 12:24 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
It's evident that some folks here misunderstand the nature of earmarks. An earmark isn't extra money that is added to a spending bill. Instead, it's money that has already been allocated -- the earmark just directs the money to a specific project. So if Alaska was allocated a certain amount of money for road and infrastructure improvements, and $233M of that was earmarked for the Ketchikan bridge, then that $233M came out of Alaska's total allocation. If the bridge project is subsequently cancelled, Alaska would still get the $233M -- it just doesn't have to spend it on that bridge any more.

Palin kept the bridge money because that money would have gone to Alaska anyway. I don't see anything wrong with that.


Joe: Read the articles about the bridge project and then read the transcript from Palin's acceptance speech [excerpt below]. Palin is misrepresenting herself.

CNN Article:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/22/alaska.bridge.ap/

Palin said: "I signed major ethics reforms, and I appointed both Democrats and independents to serve in my administration. And I've championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. In fact, I told Congress thanks, but no thanks, on that 'bridge to nowhere.' If our state wanted a bridge, I said, we'd build it ourselves."

http://community.adn.com/adn/node/130001

Palin did NOT champion reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. When did she tell Congress, thanks, but no thanks? She took the pork barrel money--she didn't give it back with a thanks, but no thanks. She is misrepresenting the facts.

McCain himself complained about sending that 233 million dollars of pork to AK for a bridge they didn't really need after another bridge collapsed in Minnesota killing 13 people. McCain stated that 233 million should have been allocated to better use. Why are they deceiving the public and portraying Palin as the champion against congressional pork spending? Do you see anything wrong with their deception?
Debra Law
 
  4  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 12:40 am
@old europe,
old europe wrote:
Yup, that's what the article said.

It also said that "Republicans U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens and U.S. Rep. Don Young championed the project through Congress two years ago, securing more than $200 million in funds for the bridge between Ketchikan, on Revillagigedo Island, and Gravina Island."

Sooo... doesn't that mean that those $200 million were added to Alaska's total allocation?


I believe Joe is mistaken concerning the character of the "earmark" in this particular matter. If the 233 million dollars was truly money that AK would have been allocated regardless, as Joe believes, then why did the AK congressional representatives have to fight so long and hard to get it and why did the "bridge to nowhere" become a national symbol of federal pork-barrel spending?
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 12:43 am
@Debra Law,
there is no doubt in my mind that if the other 49 states had been offered the deal of stripping all of the earmarks but sending a check to the state for the full amounts for the states to use as they saw fit that 49 certified acceptance letters would have been in route to Washington by COB the day the offer was recieved. States always say they wish they were allowed to use the money as they want, as they think would be best, to not be told by Congress what they must do with it. Alaska got the story of the pork project off of the news, AND got the no strings money that every state wants but almost never gets...it was a sweetheart deal.



0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 12:50 am
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:
Joe: Read the articles about the bridge project and then read the transcript from Palin's acceptance speech [excerpt below]. Palin is misrepresenting herself.

That may very well be true. But then I didn't say that she wasn't misrepresenting herself, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 12:58 am
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:
I believe Joe is mistaken concerning the character of the "earmark" in this particular matter. If the 233 million dollars was truly money that AK would have been allocated regardless, as Joe believes, then why did the AK congressional representatives have to fight so long and hard to get it and why did the "bridge to nowhere" become a national symbol of federal pork-barrel spending?

As far as I can tell, Stevens didn't fight long and hard to get the bridge, primarily because he didn't have to fight to get the earmark into the bill at all. As with most earmarks, they are simply inserted into spending bills by members of congress at various stages throughout the process, without any kind of controversy or even discussion. The only fight that Stevens had came after the media took hold of the story.

As for why the "bridge to nowhere" became a national symbol of pork-barrel spending, I leave that to others to figure out. Truly, it was no more wasteful or idiotic than hundreds of other earmark projects approved by congress.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 01:11 am
@Green Witch,
We're just taking the Democrat cue!!!!!! What is it with you people....do as I say, not as I do? Muahahahaha Razz
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 01:16 am
@squinney,
So, the evil vixen gave it to the PEOPLE to help them HEAT THEIR HOMES.....what an EVIL BITCH....hahahaha. <hears actual quaking among the faithful>

You should be attacking things that MATTER....there's a lot to choose from.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 01:20 am
@Cycloptichorn,
She gave it to the peeps. I love that.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 01:23 am
@Debra Law,
She meant thanks, but no thanks to the completion of the bridge. We'll do something more useful with that money----and she did.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 01:26 am
@Debra Law,
The bridge crap is just not hanging on her....a waste of time to try it. I'd move on to her views on creationism.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 01:32 am
@Lash,
Quote:
I'd move on to her views on creationism.


Quiet, damn it!
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 01:34 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
laughing
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 02:28 am
i think palin is just a dainty for the evangelical crowd. they are not convinced about mccain's commitment to the pro-life agenda.

it's a hail mary pass. the rnc believes that they have pretty low chance of taking the election.

if they were really all that interested in taking a balanced approach that would appeal to a wider swath of americans, they would have picked someone with less christian bonifides and more real world credibility.

like tom ridge...

0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 06:49 am
@Cycloptichorn,
That's a talented 4-month-old! Wink
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 07:00 am
@Robert Gentel,
Surely there are lines somewhere, though?

For example, a while back, George Clooney came up as a possibility for the Dems. Half-joking, but only half. I said that there has to be some bare minimum of experience and knowledge. You don't have to have 25 years of inside-the-beltway experience, but there's a threshold that Clooney doesn't pass. I'm not sure whether Palin has either -- maybe, but the evidence so far isn't very encouraging. (No matter what -- and I'm happy about this -- her selection squashes McCain's ability to criticize Obama's inexperience. McCain simply can't promise not to die.)

I don't remember if I quoted this one already, apologies if I did.

Andrew Sullivan wrote:
Oh God. This is now getting officially painful. Just listen to this audio of Palin talking about Iraq. It's excruciating. She doesn't "know what the plan is to ever end the war"? She sounds about as informed as someone you would grab off the subway at random. This is how seriously McCain takes foreign policy and war? Here's the full interview from August 14th. And here's the quote in more context:

Quote:
The GOP agenda to ramp up domestic supplies of energy is the only way that we are going to become energy independent, the only way that we are going to become a more secure nation. And I say this, of course, knowing the situation we are in right now " at war, not knowing what the plan is to ever end the war we are engaged in, understanding that Americans are seeking solutions and are seeking resolution in this war effort. So energy supplies and being able to produce and supply domestically is going to be a big part of that.[/quote[/quote]

"this audio"= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7niokOXyjs

"full interview"= http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837536,00.html
sozobe
 
  1  
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 07:32 am
@sozobe,
I know, I know, I'm a quoting machine. But I think this one is interesting both for what it says and who says it (David Frum, conservative Republican).

Quote:
Palin

The longer I think about it, the less well this selection sits with me. And I increasingly doubt that it will prove good politics. The Palin choice looks cynical. The wires are showing.

John McCain wanted a woman: good.

He wanted to keep conservatives and pro-lifers happy: naturally.

He wanted someone who looked young and dynamic: smart.

And he discovered that he could not reconcile all these imperatives with the stated goal of finding a running mate qualified to assume the duties of the presidency "on day one."

Sarah Palin may well have concealed inner reservoirs of greatness. I hope so! But I'd guess that John McCain does not have a much better sense of who she is, what she believes, and the extent of her abilities than my enthusiastic friends over at the Corner. It's a wild gamble, undertaken by our oldest ever first-time candidate for president in hopes of changing the board of this election campaign. Maybe it will work. But maybe (and at least as likely) it will reinforce a theme that I'd be pounding home if I were the Obama campaign: that it's John McCain for all his white hair who represents the risky choice, while it is Barack Obama who offers cautious, steady, predictable governance.

Here's I fear the worst harm that may be done by this selection. The McCain campaign's slogan is "country first." It's a good slogan, and it aptly describes John McCain, one of the most self-sacrificing, gallant, and honorable men ever to seek the presidency.

But question: If it were your decision, and you were putting your country first, would you put an untested small-town mayor a heartbeat away from the presidency?


http://frum.nationalreview.com/post/?q=M2VhOWE0N2VkOWI3MDdlODRlZWE4ODljMDc2NjliZDk=
0 Replies
 
 

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