cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Tue 16 Sep, 2008 10:15 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Sounds so much like Bush and all the laws he broke during his two terms; Palin fits right in, and she should be the one replacing Bush, not McCain; he's too much of a straight talker.
okie
 
  2  
Tue 16 Sep, 2008 10:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
So now that all you guys have all the crimes of Palins enumerated, tried, and convicted, what day have you scheduled for her execution?
firefly
 
  3  
Tue 16 Sep, 2008 11:10 pm
@okie,
Even conservatives, like George Will, are crticizing McCain's choice of Palin as well...

Quote:
So, Sarah Palin. The man who would be the oldest to embark on a first presidential term has chosen as his possible successor a person of negligible experience.

Any cook can run the state, said Lenin, who was wrong about that, too. America's gentle populists and other sentimental egalitarians postulate that wisdom is easily acquired and hence broadly diffused; therefore anyone with a good heart can deliver good government, which is whatever the public desires. "The people of Nebraska," said the archetypal populist William Jennings Bryan, "are for free silver, and I am for free silver. I will look up the arguments later."

John McCain's opponent is by far the least experienced person to receive a presidential nomination in the 75 years since the federal government became a comprehensively intrusive regulatory state and modern weaponry annihilated the protection the nation derived from time and distance. Which is why McCain's case for his candidacy could, until last Friday, be distilled into two words: Experience matters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, experience is not sufficient to prove a person "qualified" for the presidency. But it is a necessary component of qualification.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
McCain's selection of her is applied McCainism -- a visceral judgment by one who is confidently righteous. But the viscera are not the seat of wisdom.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/02/AR2008090202441.html
okie
 
  1  
Tue 16 Sep, 2008 11:35 pm
@firefly,
What the Republican Party has done in picking the relative unknown, an exciting young woman like Palin, that is relatively untested but has already attained sort of a celebrity status that could be compared in some ways to the Obama appeal, is to fight fire with fire. Question is, was fighting this fire with fire the best method, or would someone more akin to water or fire retardent have worked better?
Debra Law
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 10:29 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
JUNEAU, Alaska (AP) -- Alaska's attorney general says state employees subpoenaed in the investigation of Gov. Sarah Palin will not testify.

In a letter to the Democratic state senator overseeing the investigation, Attorney General Talis Colberg asks that the subpoenas be withdrawn. He also says the employees will not appear before the investigator unless either the full state Senate or the entire Alaska Legislature votes to compel their testimony.


More of the same. This is a page out of Bush's book. Bush engaged in the same obstructive tactic when the Senate Judiciary Committee was investigating the firings of U.S. attorneys.

Regardless of the Alaska Attorney General's statement that the employees will NOT appear, an individual employee who ignores a legislative committee subpoena and fails to appear will be in violation of a state penal statute.


0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  2  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 10:46 am
@okie,
okie wrote: "So now that all you guys have all the crimes of Palins enumerated, tried, and convicted, what day have you scheduled for her execution?"

I believe her "execution" date in the national court of public opinion will be November 4, 2008. What the people of the State of Alaska do with their sociopathic governor after that is their problem.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 01:57 pm
@Debra Law,
Quote:
09.17.08 -- 3:17PM // link | recommend
Natural Born Crooks

Presidential candidates usually have to wait until they're elected to start obstructing investigations into their own wrong-doing. But ready on day one as he is, John McCain and Sarah Palin are getting a jump on this front too. I'm not sure I've ever seen an instance of a president, let alone a presidential candidate, quite this nakedly doing everything in his power to shutdown an investigation. And look closely -- Palin herself has at this point entirely turned the obstruction over to the McCain campaign. They're even the ones who make the announcements. (I want get into the battery of lawyers plumbers up in Alaska getting all the small fry to clam up and digging up dirt on all Palin's accusers.)

Meanwhile, the claim that the Obama camp has 'tainted' the trooper-gate investigation is truly risible. This investigation was well underway and already looking bad for Palin and her husband well before John McCain picked her as his running mate. (We know: we were already covering it.) What I do not think that many people know is that this investigation up in Alaska has actually been authorized and is being run by Republicans. They make up a majority in the state senate. The committee member overseeing the investigation happens to be a Democrat. But at any moment of their choosing, they could pull him off the case, overrule his decisions, or shut the investigation down entirely.

Palin's response to this -- to the question of how Obama could have tainted the campaign which is under the control of Alaska Republicans -- is to claim that there are actually a lot of Republicans in Alaska who oppose her. And that's true. But observing that a sizable number of officeholders of your own party think you're probably a crook too does not amount to an affirmative defense. Really, it doesn't.

The fall back defense, when claims about Obama's 'taint' fall flat, is that Palin's someone who 'shakes things up'. That's what she's done in Alaska and that's what she's going to do in Washington.

But a pattern of crony hiring and politicized firings of public officials all followed up by stonewalling and obstruction of justice really would not amount to 'shaking things up' in Washington. After eight years of President Bush, that's more like steady as she goes.

--Josh Marshall


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/217609.php

McCain and Palin are hoping to brazen her investigation out. It's bullshit. I don't see how any Republican can support this. And I don't see how she is going to be able to answer questions about it effectively. It's too much like the Bush/Cheney situation. Her excuses are not going to hold any water under examination.

And I'm pretty sure that she is violating the law in the EXACT same way the DoJ was, by refusing to honor legal subpoenas granted by the Legislature, the Republican-ran Legislature no less. We've had 8 years of an executive branch that spits on the Legislature and feels like it can ignore the law. Who wants more of that?

Cycloptichorn
candidone1
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 02:28 pm
@okie,
I thought the republicans hated and even campaigned against celebrity-hood like that found in Obama, and, come to think of it, all of Hollywood....
I guess they are against something until the collective herd discovers it's politically expedient to adopt it....please refer to Reagan, Palin, Schwartzenegger, Rush, Hannity, and Coulter et al if there is any confusion about the hypocrisy in their loathe for celebrity.
0 Replies
 
Berger
 
  2  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 03:23 pm
With the release of the emails containing evidence of insubordination by the guy Palin fired in the "troopergate" tempest in a teapot it would appear there is nothing of consequence here. Besides, the fired dude served at the pleasure of the Governor and she can fire him or anyone similarly situated at will.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 03:34 pm
@Berger,
Berger wrote:

With the release of the emails containing evidence of insubordination by the guy Palin fired in the "troopergate" tempest in a teapot it would appear there is nothing of consequence here. Besides, the fired dude served at the pleasure of the Governor and she can fire him or anyone similarly situated at will.


Laughing

Surely you do not actually believe what you just wrote.

Cycloptichorn
Debra Law
 
  2  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 03:52 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
McCain and Palin are hoping to brazen her investigation out. It's bullshit. I don't see how any Republican can support this. And I don't see how she is going to be able to answer questions about it effectively. It's too much like the Bush/Cheney situation. Her excuses are not going to hold any water under examination.

And I'm pretty sure that she is violating the law in the EXACT same way the DoJ was, by refusing to honor legal subpoenas granted by the Legislature, the Republican-ran Legislature no less. We've had 8 years of an executive branch that spits on the Legislature and feels like it can ignore the law. Who wants more of that?


On top of that, they tell us that transparency will be the hallmark of their administration. ROFL
Berger
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 03:55 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Absolutely. Do you question the insubordination and the right of the Governor to fire those who serve at her pleasure?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 03:56 pm
@Debra Law,
That's all part and parcel of McCain's straight talk express.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 03:57 pm
@Berger,
Berger wrote:

Absolutely. Do you question the insubordination and the right of the Governor to fire those who serve at her pleasure?


Yes, I absolutely do question that. I see no actual evidence of insubordination whatsoever. Palin certainly didn't give that as the reason for firing him at the time. She has at this date given out 4 different reasons for firing him at different times.

Here's a question for you: under what authority can Palin and those in her administration refuse to cooperate with duly enacted subpoenas by the state Legislature, which is Republican-controlled? What law allows her to ignore and advise others to ignore these subpoenas?

I wager that you will be able to produce no such law and no such authority.

What you wrote is truly laughable; Palin cannot fire her employees for their refusal to break the law on her orders. She cannot pressure them to break the law, which is exactly what she was doing in this case, as you well know. It's an abuse of power, and she SHOULD be investigated for it. She promised to comply fully with the investigation and even invited it. Now that it doesn't look like it's going well, however, she seeks to shut it down. You don't see anything suspect there? C'mon. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

Cycloptichorn
Debra Law
 
  2  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 03:59 pm
@Berger,
Berger wrote: "With the release of the emails containing evidence of insubordination by the guy Palin fired in the "troopergate" tempest in a teapot it would appear there is nothing of consequence here. Besides, the fired dude served at the pleasure of the Governor and she can fire him or anyone similarly situated at will. "

Please provide a link to the alleged "insubordination" evidence. BTW, that's NOT the explanation she gave when she fired him. Post hoc justifications aren't credible. And you misconstrue the issue. The issue is NOT whether she fired someone who served at her pleasure; the issue is whether she abused her power in attempt to settle an OLD score with her ex-brother-in-law. In other words, this is an ETHICS investigation.
Berger
 
  1  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 04:06 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
According to news reports, the insubordination was related to going behind her back to try and undo a veto of funding she had made. Can't cite the specific law that says the Governor can fire those whom she has appointed and serve at her pleasure but that is pretty common knowledge that government chief executives have that right I think.

You got a better chance of scaring voters about her with a charge of handling snakes and speaking in tongues than make this one stick.
Berger
 
  2  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 04:08 pm
@Debra Law,
It is a an attempt to scare voters about Palin's temperment with a political witch hunt masquerading as an objective investigation.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 04:11 pm
@Berger,
Berger wrote:

According to news reports, the insubordination was related to going behind her back to try and undo a veto of funding she had made. Can't cite the specific law that says the Governor can fire those whom she has appointed and serve at her pleasure but that is pretty common knowledge that government chief executives have that right I think.

You got a better chance of scaring voters about her with a charge of handling snakes and speaking in tongues than make this one stick.


Link to the news reports saying this, please. It is common on this message board to provide evidence of some sort to back up your claims.

You didn't answer my question, as to what authority Palin has to ignore lawfully enacted subpoenas by the state legislature.

Palin has the right to fire the guy; and she did. No legal decision will get him rehired. That's not the point. She didn't have the right to pressure him to commit illegal acts and then punish him when he didn't do that! You are conflating two different topics as if they were the same thing. Palin is under investigation for illegally using her political power to try to punish her ex-brother in law. It's an ETHICS investigation. Do you understand the difference?

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 04:12 pm
@Berger,
Berger wrote:

It is a an attempt to scare voters about Palin's temperment with a political witch hunt masquerading as an objective investigation.


The investigation was authorized by a Republican Congress and then re-authorized by that same group of Republicans. How can you say that it's a 'witch hunt?' And what part of that opinion gives anyone the right to not comply with the law?

Cycloptichorn
Berger
 
  3  
Wed 17 Sep, 2008 04:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Palin isn't ignoring the subpoenas. She is challenging the legitimacy of them in court. Do you understand the difference?

I heard the news reports on TV so can't give you a written cite.
 

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