H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:01 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:


Jesus Christ was a community organizer


Proof?
Ticomaya
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:09 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Well, certainly it's poor judgment on the daughter's part. But "poor parenting skills" by the parents? I don't think you can make that leap, unless you are just anxious to blame her. The best parent in the world can still have a child that makes poor decisions. I suspect if you asked around, you would find many parents would agree with that statement.
firefly
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:09 pm
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya, they could have brought the infant out on stage after Palin finished her speech. They really didn't need to have a sleeping 5 month old in the audience, being passed from person to person, like a football, as we saw last night. We are talking about a child with Down's Syndrome who might well have the various medical problems associated with that condition . Special needs children do need special care and more protective handling. The baby could have been kept off-stage in an appropriate carrier, rather than in the audience, until Palin's speech was over.
I do think the infant was being exploited by being kept in the audience where the camera could constantly hone in on him. The infant establishes her "credentials", with the religious right, and proves that her behavior is consistent with her anti-abortion beliefs, since many people chose to abort if the fetus has Down's Syndrome. He was being put on "display". All things considered, I think that is exploitive.

I never said Palin shouldn't be employed outside of the home. I did wonder who cares for the children--particularly the 4 minors. Does her husband stay home with them? Do they have a nanny? Child care is an issue for both parents--I am simply interested in knowing how the Palins manage it. I do want to know something about their "family values" other than that they don't believe in abortion, that their 17 year old daughter is pregnant, and that they apparently condone teenage marriage between two high school students.

Ticomaya
 
  1  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:10 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Obama = Jesus

Enough with the kool-aid drinking already!!!
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:11 pm
@Ticomaya,
Well, fair enough. But the right-wing has been on parents whose daughters get knocked up for some time. And I think Palin's 'abstinence only' stance on sex-education is definitely called into question now.

I think we both know that if Obama had the same situation - a teenage, unwed daughter who was knocked up and was basically looking forward to a shotgun marriage - there would be discussion about the parents and their responsibility.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:11 pm
@Ticomaya,
haha, nobody said Obama=Jesus. Just noted that they had the same job for a while.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:14 pm
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:14 pm
@firefly,
She had her family on stage. For you to consider it a staged event that exploited the child is further evidence of how desperate leftists are to attack Palin, and how seriously irritated they are that she didn't embarrass herself last night in her first major speech of the campaign, IMHO.

How many children did Biden raise as a single father? (I heard the story tangentially.) Is he to be denigrated for doing so? Odd questions, IMV, and certainly sexist, even though you don't want to admit it.
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:14 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

re: "the reform she wanted to bring about." I can understand how you'd miss the point that she spoke in detail about the reform SHE HAS BROUGHT ABOUT. Since the Dems' ticket can only talk about plans...and Palin talked about her actions...

giggle


I could be missing it... are you talking about putting the jet on ebay? Firing the family chef? I didn't catch any long lasting reforms.

And the Dem ticket has plenty of actions under its belt, as pointed out by many a fact check.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:16 pm
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya wrote:

She had her family on stage. For you to consider it a staged event that exploited the child is further evidence of how desperate leftists are to attack Palin, and how seriously irritated they are that she didn't embarrass herself last night in her first major speech of the campaign, IMHO.

How many children did Biden raise as a single father? (I heard the story tangentially.) Is he to be denigrated for doing so? Odd questions, IMV, and certainly sexist, even though you don't want to admit it.


Biden's wife was killed in a car wreck - hardly the same situation. And he DID remarry.

Cycloptichorn
FreeDuck
 
  3  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:16 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Haven't heard O since he saw Palin....and the Dem operatives on TV are flippin out. Surely you must have seen their responses....


I'm curious who you were watching. I saw three panelists on Larry King after the speech who were pretty calm and cool about it (Wasserman-Shultz, Jemal whats-his-name, and another guy whose last name is Shultz). Biden was smooth as butter on Fox this morning.
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:16 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I'm sure it will be, but I don't think it's a valid criticism.

And I agree that Obama would take heat under a similar circumstance ... but I would still not agree that it's a valid criticism.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:18 pm
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck wrote:

Biden was smooth as butter on Fox this morning.



Biden is cool for now and I can't wait to see he and Palin debate.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:23 pm
Quote:

September 4, 2008 2:41
What a Community Organizer Does
Posted by Joe Klein | Comments (78) | Permalink | Trackbacks (0) | Email This

Slowly, slowly, I am recovering from the extremely effective bilge festival staged by the Republicans last night. And while there is much to discuss, there was one item, in particular, that has to be considered infuriating: the attack on Barack Obama's service as a community organizer by the odious Rudy Giuliani--he's come to look like a villain in a Frank Capra movie, hasn't he?--and Sarah Palin.

This morning, I received a press release from a group called Catholic Democrats about the work--the mission, the witness--that Obama performed after he got out of college. Here's the first paragraph:

Quote:
Catholic Democrats is expressing surprise and shock that Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's acceptance speech tonight mocked her opponent's work in the 1980s for the Catholic Campaign for Human Development. She belittled Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama's experience as a community organizer in Catholic parishes on the South Side of Chicago, work he undertook instead of pursuing a lucrative career on Wall Street. In her acceptance speech, Ms. Palin said, "I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a community organizer, except that you have actual responsibilities." Community organizing is at the heart of Catholic Social Teaching to end poverty and promote social justice.

So here is what Giuliani and Palin didn't know: Obama was working for a group of churches that were concerned about their parishioners, many of whom had been laid off when the steel mills closed on the south side of Chicago. They hired Obama to help those stunned people recover and get the services they needed--job training, help with housing and so forth--from the local government. It was, dare I say it, the Lord's work--the sort of mission Jesus preached (as opposed to the war in Iraq, which Palin described as a "task from God.")

This is what Palin and Giuliani were mocking. They were making fun of a young man's decision "to serve a cause greater than himself," in the words of John McCain. They were, therefore, mocking one of their candidate's favorite messages. Obama served the poor for three years, then went to law school. To describe this service--the first thing he did out of college, the sort of service every college-educated American should perform, in some form or other--as anything other than noble is cheap and tawdry and cynical in the extreme.

Perhaps La Pasionaria of the Northern Slope didn't know this when she read the words they gave her. But Giuliani--a profoundly lapsed Catholic, who must have met more than a few religious folk toiling in the inner cities--should have known. ("I don't even know what that is," he sneered.") What a shameful performance.


Keep it up, keep knocking his public service, Republicans. I do not predict success from this strategy.

Cycloptichorn
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:23 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I really don't know why you are pursuing this angle at all. It was first espoused by Dr. Laura, for chrissakes. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Palin. The kid thing isn't one of them.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:25 pm
@FreeDuck,
Just discussing it. I think it's hardly the most serious knock on Palin.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:30 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Can you highlight his public service for us?
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:31 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
This one, yeah. When she started knocking him for his service like that I started to think she was being petty and disrespectful. But then I remembered that she didn't write the speech (not that it makes it ok). I'm interested in hearing more of her own words come out of her mouth.
FreeDuck
 
  3  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 02:32 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Can you highlight his public service for us?


You've already accepted and openly mocked his public service. Now you want it explained to you?
McTag
 
  1  
Thu 4 Sep, 2008 03:17 pm

An unpleasant thought occurred to me today (unusually for me.)

Mrs Palin famously undertook a long journey home after her waters had broken, involving even a change of planes, to have her latest child in Alaska, the child being born with Downs.
Medical opinion is that that was extremely hazardous for the infant. Nobody knows why she did that. There were competent hospitals a lot closer.

However, it is now possible for Downs Syndrome to be diagnosed before birth.

So, she could have been trying to end the infant's life.
 

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