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FREEDOM MARCHES ON !!!

 
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2003 10:52 pm
Hving treated gods only know how many kids with GSWs, I hope that there is a special place in the hot place for folks who so ardently push softening of gun laws and engage in the vigilate fantasies OSD does.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2003 10:57 pm
Seems STRANGE, that some people think
they can find safety in personal helplessness.

I guess its just a liberal perversion of logic.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2003 11:25 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Hving treated gods only know how many kids with GSWs, I hope that there is a special place in the hot place for folks who so ardently push softening of gun laws and engage in the vigilate fantasies OSD does.


If u r a physician,
we depend on u to have a competent command of logic.
Self-defense is not a vigilante fantasy.
Survival is not to be found in helplessness.

When I was 8, I left NY and went to Phoenix, Arizona.
The kids in my neighborhood,
older n younger than I was, took delight in target shooting
with rifles n handguns at the YMCA, out on the desert,
or in the mountains n pine forests. We shot Thompson
Submachineguns at the National Guard; (my neighbor was a captain).
Over a period of 5 years that I was a resident, there
was never any trouble, no complaints of anyone of any age
exhibiting bad manners with firearms. At that age, we also had
fun playing "Cowboys n Indians", using toy, imitation guns.

There was never any confusion in anyone's mind qua which was the
toy n which was a functional weapon,
just as we clearly understood which was a toy, imitation car n
which was a functional vehicle. None of my friends was ever either
so psychoticly detached from reality,
nor so stupid as to get mixed up between toys n reality.

More people were killed by Ted Kennedy's car, than by any of our guns.
Yet, the fact that we had possession of commericially manufactured guns
did not stop me, nor my friends in the neighborhood
from making our own guns ("zip guns")
because it was FUN, interesting n did not take long.
(a little risky, tho; some of those things'd blow up in your hand)


Doctor, I must wonder how many of those kids u treated
had received firearms safety training in school ? or elsewhere ?
How many were wounded by sadistic robbers who shot them after
they fully co-operated, to get a thrill ?
How many of them were shot by their victims
while they were committing criminally predatory acts ?

Tell me, Doctor, have u treated MORE children wounded by guns,
or by cars ?? Do u suggest ending cars ??


Bottom line: EVERYONE HAS A NATURAL RIGHT, and a
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, to self-defense,
and government has been explicitly denied authority to interfere with that
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2003 11:30 pm
OSD, not a physician, an EMT-P. Most of those kids were killed by older kids and adults who had guns, legally or illegally. The "proper training" argunement doesn't cut it with me. I see no reason for greater acess to guns. I think that the fools who desperately want their "concealed carry" permits are putting themselves and others in danger. Would you really shoot someone rather than just hand over your wallet? Would you "pull the trigger" on an intruder? What if the intruder you shot was a family member wandering around the house in the dark? What if the "bad guy' you kill in the parking garage is a homeles person who was looking for a place to sleep, but scared you by making noise? Why is killing others the only solution?
Your arguements for "self defence" often sound like arguements for vigilantism.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 12:33 am
Would you really shoot someone rather than just hand over your wallet?
Would you "pull the trigger" on an intruder?
What if the intruder you shot was a family member wandering around the house in the dark?
What if the "bad guy' you kill in the parking garage is a homeles person
who was looking for a place to sleep, but scared you by making noise?
Why is killing others the only solution?
Your arguements for "self defence" often sound like arguements for vigilantism.[/quote]




Failure to be vigilant can cost your life. 'T was ever thus.
"Police" are relative Jonny come latelys to America.
One of the first cities in America to have them was NYC,
in which they got started in 1845. Thru out most of America,
there was nothing. Everyone had to take care of himself.
(In colonial times, in the spirit of modern seatbelt laws,
it was required by statute that everyone
who cud lift a gun be armed in going to church or to work;
guess they were losing too many Christians in transit.)
Anyway, some of these folks formed private "well regulated " militia
or just groups that were vigilante n wud follow a criminal predator,
dispensing with the niceties of criminal litigation, just hang a perp.
to a tree n go home to a fine meal. Some questions of "due process" arose,
so the "vigilance" groups got a bad name for hanging criminals too fast.
We don't have so much of that problem today. That's NOT at issue.

As of now, 36 of the 5O states have "must issue" licensure of
concealed weapons, such that the police cannot discriminate
as to who can, n who can't defend his life from violent depredation
(unless the applicant has a bad criminal history, or is an adjudicated
mental defective). In each state, crime dropped when "gun control"
laws were repealed, in favor of freely available concealed gun licensure.
NO STATE, has ever changed its mind n gone back to "gun control."
That proves they had a good experience with CCW.

When the USA was created, Bibles n guns were put BEYOND the reach of government.
It has NO AUTHORITY in that area.


U ask: "Would you really shoot someone
rather than just hand over your wallet? " I believe that's a very fine idea,
and a very valuable public service. Remember that sometimes they kill
their victims ANYWAY. Dead men tell no tales. copy ?


U ask: "Would you "pull the trigger" on an intruder? "
I believe that's a very fine idea,
and a very valuable public service. Remember that sometimes they kill
their victims ANYWAY. Dead men tell no tales. copy ?


U ask: "What if the intruder you shot was a family member wandering around the house in the dark? "
For me, that's impossible, but everyone shud know what the hell he's doing n
not act blindly, the same way that u don't drive your car blindly.
They shud have self defense training like the police n FBI. Practice.

U ask: "What if the "bad guy' you kill in the parking garage is a homeles
person who was looking for a place to sleep, but scared you by making noise? "
Well, Doctor, u shud NOT defend, if there is NO threat,
the same way that u will not defibrillate someone who is in good
cardiac health, nor will u take out your jack to change a tire if its not flat.

U ask: "Why is killing others the only solution?"
Because failure to do so, can cost u your life,
or grievous n permanent personal injury.

I imagine u knew this already, without my telling u.

A few years ago, we a surgeon who was robbed about 9PM,
as he walked along Central Park West, near Tavern on the Green,
tho he co-operated with robber fully, he was murdered just for the hell of it.

Its not enuf to shake your head n utter a platitude.
Logic requires that u DO something to prepare, before the threat presents itself.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 12:36 am
I'll say it again. Of 30 000 gun related deaths in US each year, less than 200 are justifiable homicides by private citizens defending themselves. That means you've got a 0.67% of defending yourself with a firearm. I'd rather just hand over my wallet. But funnily enough, at age 37 not once in my life have I ever felt threatened enough to need a gun. This guy's attitude is nothing but a product of a disgustingly violent society. (and a pretty twisted mind)
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 01:44 am
Wilso, your statistics are foolishly off.
That wud constitute 4 per state per year; obvious nonsense.

U must have gotten your statistics from a "gun control" group.
They cannot carry the day by use of logic,
so they resort to mendacity, prevarication, fraud n deception;

e.g. in a study of deaths of men with guns in their houses,
they (secretly) counted deaths from automobile accidents and drownings,
if the decedent had a gun in his house while he was drowning at sea.
In an effort to exagerate danger to children,
they (secretly) counted men up to 24 years old,
secretly re-defining "children "
including gang wars over drug turf,
and 24 year old criminals shot by the police as "children" injured by guns.

Advocates of discriminatory licensure of the right
to defend one's life, have demonstrated no respect for the truth.


A retired English police officer told of how he was ordered
to distort crime statistics to conceal the upsurge of violent crime
since the English government stole all English handguns
and most shoulder weapons (e.g., counting several felonies,
to several victims together, as only one crime).
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 01:51 am
David
Are you still talking guns? It's not very often I run into your posts, but for the last year at least, all I see you talk about is guns. Are you that scared. I'm with Wilso in saying that I've never felt threatened enough to need a gun and I spent most of my life in the Boston area. Hell, I use to drive a cab until 4am.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 01:59 am
Montana wrote:
David
Are you still talking guns? It's not very often I run into your posts, but for the last year at least, all I see you talk about is guns. Are you that scared. I'm with Wilso in saying that I've never felt threatened enough to need a gun and I spent most of my life in the Boston area. Hell, I use to drive a cab until 4am.


Methinks he's compensating for a rather tiny portion of his anatomy.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 02:01 am
Montana, your post assumes an issue of fear.
Its not a question of emotions;
its a matter of being competently prepared for a quantifiable threat.


While u were driving around, did u have a spare tire in your trunk ?

Were u "scared" of getting a flat ?

Do u have any insurance ?
Do u buy it on the basis of emotions ?

If u DO get robbed or mutilated, will it be enuf for u
to describe your emotions to the predator ??
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 02:11 am
Wilso wrote:
Montana wrote:
David
Are you still talking guns? It's not very often I run into your posts, but for the last year at least, all I see you talk about is guns. Are you that scared. I'm with Wilso in saying that I've never felt threatened enough to need a gun and I spent most of my life in the Boston area. Hell, I use to drive a cab until 4am.


Methinks he's compensating for a rather tiny portion of his anatomy.



Altho I don't wish u ill,
it wud be an interesting psychological study
to see how u acted during a predatory emergency,
if after your abject surrender, giving over your wallet
(as u put it) were not considered enuf by your tormentor.

Think of some of the things inflicted upon the populace
by Saddam's thugs. They don't have a monopoly of sadism.

If u, your mother n your child, fell victim to the discretion
of a robber n kidnapper with ulterior motives, what wud u do ??
What if he were abusive ?

Just HOPE that grovelling n begging wud be enuf ?
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 02:26 am
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Montana, your post assumes an issue of fear.
Its not a question of emotions;
its a matter of being competently prepared for a quantifiable threat.


While u were driving around, did u have a spare tire in your trunk ?

Were u "scared" of getting a flat ?

Do u have any insurance ?
Do u buy it on the basis of emotions ?

If u DO get robbed or mutilated, will it be enuf for u
to describe your emotions to the predator ??


Yes I had a spare tire.
No, I was not scared of getting a flat.
Yes, I had insurance.
Don't understand the next question.
If I get robbed, it's only money.
If I get mutilated, never let my mind go there.
When I'm done sweet talking the predator, he'll be giving me money.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 02:57 am
I can't even read his spelling. Compensating for lack of brains as well.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 03:11 am
It is hard reading his writting!
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 03:24 am
verri difecalt.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 03:26 am
hahaha!!!
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 03:34 am
I can't stop laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 06:25 am
man, have I missed some action here. Those of you who wish to remain victims , by whatever logic, be my guest.

being armed doesnt make one a vigilante anymore than karate training makes one a bully. The anti gun sentiment is claptrap.

ive had the experience of being shot at in anger in foreign countries. i will not allow that to happen again. You cannot defend yourself against a bullet with just a stick. Those of you whose lives are so peaceful and controlled environmentally, and whove never experienced the terror of being shot at, it takes but a second to be carjacked and shot by some felon.
Of course the odds favor me NOT being so accosted, however, I like to button down as many variables as possible, so the eMTs argument of who is the major victim today is falling on deaf ears. I am interested in protecting my family and me. Notice I did not say property. Thats all insured and scheduled. Its not worth dying or killing over.
you all seem to miss the point that a gun is a contingency item. a last resort of protection. if you choose not to avail yourself of such protection, it certainly is your choice. Maybe some day ill save your life while Im protecting me.
My guns are infrequently used at all. we all target practice but a few times a year and then the pistols only stand in readiness.
If someone breaks into my home while Im there, I assume theyve cased the place and are pros capable of deadly force. Thats my standing assumption, and Im not going to try to defend my family with a butcher knife.
As far as the 'ganging up with silly cheap shots like the" wee willy' compensation, can you do no better than that?
Statistically if youve not been threatened by a gun , so be it. Your in the majority. My house sits on a hill and rarely do we get hit by lightning in the area. BUT, I have lightning rods. I also have gotten our herd vaccinated against West Nile, even though, statistically, our chances of contracting the disease in our flock is min imal.
I never talk about guns Wilso. however, in this case i agree with Om sig, and for the most part he and I rarely agree on other things. Its a matter of logic not emotion. Being familiar, trained , and resolute in the use 9and misuse ) of a handgun is a deterrent to becoming a victim. Buy it or not, itsa truth.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 06:42 am
You live in a gun crazed, violent society. You've allowed so many of the damn things on the street that now no-one is safe. Don't criticise those of us who find it offensive and disgusting.
Simply backs my view that the US will be the first civilised society to sink into total anarchy. I just hope you violence loving freaks don't take the rest of us with you.
0 Replies
 
NeoGuin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 06:54 am
UPDATE:

The New Bush-Info.Org, complete with a Howard Dwan Page and a site devoted to montioring how @nd Ammernemnt Absolutionists like OMSig have joined the Religious Fundamentalists and Corporate Elite in Controlling the GOP's Machinery may be delayed a bit.

I'm thinking of trying to spin EDIT (Moderator): Do not post links to your site. into an kind of "Portal" for the Anti-War Movement.
0 Replies
 
 

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