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Is it time to retire the Pledge of Allegiance?

 
 
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 08:13 am
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 8,897 • Replies: 164
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 08:18 am
A government/school orchestrated pledge is coercive in nature and, therefore, something that ought to go.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 08:30 am
I always just pretended to say the pledge, in grade school.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 08:26 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
I always just pretended to say the pledge, in grade school.


How clever a little lad you were.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 08:28 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
edgarblythe wrote:
I always just pretended to say the pledge, in grade school.


How clever a little lad you were.


Damn straight.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 08:29 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
edgarblythe wrote:
I always just pretended to say the pledge, in grade school.


How clever a little lad you were.


Damn straight.


And a butch one too, it appears.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 08:40 pm
When they changed the words, I became uncomfortable with it. Calling a man "butch" is a bit effiminate, what?
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 08:45 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
When they changed the words, I became uncomfortable with it. Calling a man "butch" is a bit effiminate, what?


Is it?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 08:49 pm
The pledge is another way of cramming religion down a person's throat, among other things.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 09:17 pm
How 'bout we replace it with a more concise version of the Oath of Citizenship...
Quote:
I pledge to support, honor, and be loyal to the United States, its Constitution, and its laws. Where and if lawfully required, I further commit myself to defend the Constitution and laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, either by military, noncombatant, or civilian service.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 09:23 pm
I think it lacks the zing of a commercial slogan, and no one will want to say it.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 09:27 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
I think it lacks the zing of a commercial slogan, and no one will want to say it.

I agree it lacks zing. But it's interesting that new citizens are required to say it (or something similar to it). For existing citizens, it seems rather implicit.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 09:37 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
The pledge is another way of cramming religion down a person's throat, among other things.


Utter shite
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 09:38 pm
That's what I said, and why I quit saying it.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 09:40 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
That's what I said, and why I quit saying it.


Still such a clever lad.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jul, 2008 05:02 am
I could say the pledge with a straight face, if it was not expected of me that I would say, "one nation, under God." This is asking an atheist to surrender a fundamental right, merely to assuage the fundamentalist bent of a segment of the population. It is the equivelent of me telling them to say the pledge, promising, "one nation, with no God."
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Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jul, 2008 07:43 am
I did like saying the Pledge of Allegiance every day at public school, as a child. We all faced the American flag, and for those few minutes, it almost seemed like the class was a united group of children, rather than the little cliques that existed in the school yard and class room. The pledge was a uniter, not a divider, in my opinion.

I did know, even then, that everyone did not believe in a God. But, that made me feel that this country was a good country, since it did not persecute atheists, or people whose religion was not that of a State religion. The pledge only explained to me the concept of a democracy, in that the majority of the country believes in the existence of a God, and therefore the pledge states, "one nation under God." What a wonderful thing democracy is, I thought, not to persecute the minority that are atheists.

Notice it says "God," not any religion's preferred term for that God.

Also, the thought that the origin of the pledge makes it less purposeful is a specious thought, in my opinion, since one does not look a gift horse in the mouth, so to speak.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jul, 2008 08:12 am
In fact, the Baptist minister who originally wrote the pledge did not include the words "under God" in his text. That was added during the 1950s commie witch hunts of HUAC and Tailgunner Joe.

Requiring a child who is raised by atheists to pledge allegiance to a nation which is alleged to be under god certainly does constitute the implementation of a state religion.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jul, 2008 08:14 am
I refused to say it for a few days in second grade. I really hate repeating other's words...and indoctrination-type mantras.

...and with your hand over your heart and all...Hitlerian to me.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jul, 2008 08:26 am
From the Wikipedia article on the pledge:

Quote:
The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855-1931), a Baptist minister, a Christian Socialist, and the cousin of Socialist Utopian novelist Edward Bellamy (1850-1898). Bellamy's original "Pledge of Allegiance" was published in the September 8th issue of the popular children's magazine The Youth's Companion as part of the National Public-School Celebration of Columbus Day, a celebration of the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus's discovery of America, conceived by James B. Upham.

Bellamy's original Pledge read, "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. America" [sic]


and . . .

Quote:
Senator Homer Ferguson, in his report to the Congress on March 10, 1954, said, "The introduction of this joint resolution was suggested to me by a sermon given recently by the Rev. George M. Docherty, of Washington, D.C., who is pastor of the church at which Lincoln worshipped." This time Congress concurred with the Oakman-Ferguson resolution, and Eisenhower opted to sign the bill into law on Flag Day (June 14, 1954). [This refers to a resolution including the words "under God" in the pledge.]
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