Fear of a Black President

Setanta wrote:

All that being said, i would point out that JTT has an unhealthy obsession about what i post, and misses no opportunity to make invidious remarks about me or what i have written.

It's only when you post tripe that I attend to your postings, Set. And by your own admission, that was what this was.

Quote:

Snood wrote:
Hmmm, JTT - that seems a bit harsh...

Set did tell me that I have harped more on race since Obama's been in the picture - and I had to admit he's right.

My alibi is that race kinda takes part of the limelight just by virtue of his candidacy, if we're honest.

It was, I agree and I retract the portion that was overly harsh. I apologise, Set, for speaking too harshly.

I don't think you need an alibi or an excuse, Snood. This is an issue that's important to you. And from the response in this thread, it's obviously something that's important to a lot of people.

It took a little urging from I think, Squinney but people are talking and for those that think that the 'race issue' has been adequately dealt with, well, those folks are seriously deluding themselves.

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Setanta wrote:

snood wrote:
. . . that kind of fear [is] out there, and . . . there are those who are fanning those fears . . .

It seems that everyone else on this thread has already stipulated that. (edited from the original for purposes of elucidation)

I'm sure i've made it clear, but just in case--i so stipulate.

Hey Set - I screwed up the quote function, but I was asking that of Lash - I knew you had already made it clear.

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CalamityJane wrote:

snood wrote:
CJ, if you wouldn't mind C&Ping that to here? For some reason, it seems some people really want an explanation.

Certainly ! This is snoods reply to my initial question

Quote:
I honestly don't see any issues as truly specifically only "African American Issues", but only some issues that seem to be the ones that blacks are more concerned with on a regular basis - but I can name a couple of things...

He (Obama) already has addressed a couple of those things in his role as a State legilator in Illinois - for instance, he made the filming of police interrogation rooms mandatory, to cut down on the rampant (and disproportionately against black) police brutality in Chicago.

The tax cut for the middle class and ending the free ride for the rich (things he wants to do) are things I think ALL working people can benefit from, but I think he and Michelle can feel our pain more than say a Bush or a McCain, because they only just got out of debt 3 years ago.

His bold agenda for reforming education - centered on things like actually giving substantial increases in salary to all teachers, but especially the good ones, is something that I see as potentially very beneficial to young black kids whose schools don't pay enough to attract the best and brightest teachers.

Overall, from what I've seen and read of the man over the last 4 years, he has a heart for the common man - the disenfranchised and those who have been left behind - not just black but all kinds. Those kinds of things usually come out in political conversations as "black issues", so I just go along with that.

I see. these aren't really "black issues," but I guess our society still likes to divide us up in this way.

snood wrote:

I answered CJ in a pm as to what I meant by my 'yes' answer when I was asked if I would expect Obama to do more for blacks. I';m pretty sure what I mean isn't quite as odious as the whole sort of "they just want him to give them a handout and free ride".

So this is why I was following this, snood--->Lash wrote:

Let me try to express what had me paying close attention here. When you said "yes," Obama would do more for blacks, it was just a blatant racially divisive sentiment (and also incorrect). Here I am thinking (forgetting political realities, but thinking of historical meaning) that an Obama presidency would possibly be a powerful uniting, healing event in this country---and with the mindset that clings to hope that Obama will somehow create policies that would favor blacks just wrecks the possible good so many people are hoping for.

Any favoritism of a race/creed/religion/fill in the blank by a President is odious--to use your word. Attending to the issues you mentioned in the PM to CJ, however, benefits all people... I just really don't want something so potentially great to be used by racial haters of any stripe to spoil this historic opportunity. I was wondering what you had heard and from whom.

Because, following your conversation with Set about fanning flames...that very kind of talk could lose Obama the election. I think things will get quite delicate closer to the election....not that I have a dog in this one...but I'd hate for the reason he lost to be misguided fear.

Anyway, snood--thanks for the clarification---and CJ, thanks for helping out.

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Quote:

I see. these aren't really "black issues," but I guess our society still likes to divide us up in this way.

Society is groups of people of various ethnic backgrounds- a rare case indeed to find one that is completely homogeneous- carrying through via their common interests and cultural, political, and economic institutions. In short, we are society, and those divisions you speak are our own- as ancient as man himself.

On B. Obama, the man intrigued me when he spoke of the importance of maintaining the American institutions created after WW2 that secured the world and its balance of power (NATO, Japan-American Cooperative, World Bank etc). I recommend a paper called America's Imperial Ambitions by G.J. Ikenberry on this issue (free of charge - Google it).

Of the two probable candidates for the national election, I would most certainly place my vote with the young man from Harvard even if his skin colour was green or blue. His arguments are persuasive, and I have not heard any proper arguments from a candidate (in the logical sense) since John Kerry. And I agree: a beautiful country this would be if we took proper argumentation as the prime determinant.

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dyslexia wrote:

I honestly fear any man/woman who seeks the office of president.

Amen Old Dys, amen.

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I fear the voters of this country.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

I fear the voters of this country.

Unfortunately, you are not among an elite group who, alone, is enabled to vote.

Of course you would have nothing of the sort because you are a DEMOCRAT.

And yet you long for, don't you really now, the system that let's your superior notions override those of the common morons?

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Quote:

I honestly fear any man/woman who seeks the office of president.

On the face of it, the implication here- which is a premise- is that those who seek the Office of the President of the U.S. are deleterious to the country given their drives, ambitions, investments etc, and those ambitions and investments may not be equitable; they might simply be "rotten to the core."

Is this correct?

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Finn dAbuzz wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
I fear the voters of this country.

Unfortunately, you are not among an elite group who, alone, is enabled to vote.

Of course you would have nothing of the sort because you are a DEMOCRAT.

And yet you long for, don't you really now, the system that let's your superior notions override those of the common morons?

The outcome of what the American voters have chosen has come home to roost. And we're ready to repeat it in November.

Obama and McCain aren't talking about the important issues of our day. As we get closer to November, the Swift Boat-type attacks are gonna be hot and heavy, and the voters will listen to that rather than a) the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, b) the cost of fuel and food, and c) loss of jobs.

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mellow yellow wrote:

Quote:
I see. these aren't really "black issues," but I guess our society still likes to divide us up in this way.

Society is groups of people of various ethnic backgrounds- a rare case indeed to find one that is completely homogeneous- carrying through via their common interests and cultural, political, and economic institutions. In short, we are society, and those divisions you speak are our own- as ancient as man himself.

...which was my point. We should move forward to thinking of ourselves as one electorate with common needs, instead of continuing to divide ourselves racially.

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Lash wrote:

mellow yellow wrote:
Quote:
I see. these aren't really "black issues," but I guess our society still likes to divide us up in this way.

Society is groups of people of various ethnic backgrounds- a rare case indeed to find one that is completely homogeneous- carrying through via their common interests and cultural, political, and economic institutions. In short, we are society, and those divisions you speak are our own- as ancient as man himself.

...which was my point. We should move forward to thinking of ourselves as one electorate with common needs, instead of continuing to divide ourselves racially.

Precisely. And that is the ONLY way that racial consciousness and the racism that such inspires is likely to ever fade into a distant memory in this country. So long as the "black" President is expected to put "black" issues on the front burner, there will be an element of us and them. There will be an element of "fear" that such person won't have the interests of the higher good of all in mind. A 'white' (or green, polka dotted or whatever) person is automatically expected to have the higher good of all in mind. We should expect no less of a President who happens to be black.

This is why I have repeatedly said that I don't want a President who makes being 'black' an issue, and I don't think it will do a thing for race relations in this country should we wind up with one. I have absolutely no problem with a President who happens to be black and, until racism becomes a distant memory, I think it is important that the first one who is that be of high character and of extreme competence. Since we all agree that racial consciousness still exists in this country, I want the first President who happens to be black to be somebody who has the higher good for all in mind and be somebody that we can all appreciate as exemplary and competent in the carrying out of his office. Such a person would do more to erase racial consciousness and 'fear' than any other single thing is likely to accomplish.

I honestly don't know whether Obama is that person.

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Quote:

..which was my point. We should move forward to thinking of ourselves as one electorate with common needs, instead of continuing to divide ourselves racially.

That would be ideal- not real. Social reality indicates otherwise and human values come in a variety of assortments, not all of which are consistent etc.

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mellow yellow wrote:

Quote:
..which was my point. We should move forward to thinking of ourselves as one electorate with common needs, instead of continuing to divide ourselves racially.

That would be ideal- not real. Social reality indicates otherwise and human values come in a variety of assortments, not all of which are consistent etc.

If we don't shoot for the ideal, it won't ever become real.

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I have little reason or desire to communicate with the snotty guttersnipe who calls himself JTT--however, i will point out that i did not characterize my remark as tripe, and that as usual when it comes to his comments on what i post, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about

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I think it is unlikely that Obama or any other Black candidate could escape the label of a potential first Black President, no matter how he (or she) conducted himself. This is simply the inevitable result of the facts of our history, including, slavery, Jim Crow, and the fact that there has not yet been a Balack President. Applying a standard that such a candidate must somehow escape such a label in these circumstances seems unrealistic.

I don't support Obama, but I do acknowledge that he has indeed made a notable effort to identify himself with a broad constituency of which black people are only a part. In that sense I believe he has met the test that Foxfyre suggested.

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I don't think there's enough people "afraid of a black president" to keep the right black man or woman from becoming president. But Obama isn't that black man, at least in my book.

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Your book's a blank, so how would you know?

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You must have mistaken Obama's campaign slogan guide for my book.

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cjhsa wrote:

I don't think there's enough people "afraid of a black president" to keep the right black man or woman from becoming president. But Obama isn't that black man, at least in my book.

Well, he's half that guy Smile

You understand that in all likelihood that is how he will be remembered?

Cycloptichorn

Fear of a Black President

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