8
   

Fear of a Black President

 
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 01:35 pm
snood wrote:
Quote:
yes..... "a real credit to his race," but on whitey's side when you get down to the lick log.


I think that's a mischaracterization - at least of the opinions of those I've talked to and know. And it's certainly not my take on him, either.

no offense intended. i am talking economics not race, but in america the two are hard to discouple.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 01:52 pm
kuvasz wrote:
snood wrote:
Quote:
yes..... "a real credit to his race," but on whitey's side when you get down to the lick log.


I think that's a mischaracterization - at least of the opinions of those I've talked to and know. And it's certainly not my take on him, either.

no offense intended. i am talking economics not race, but in america the two are hard to discouple.


no offense taken. It just sounds like we're not polling the same people.
0 Replies
 
MissDee
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 02:16 pm
This is my first post and i'm going in at the deep end with politics but it is a topic i have followed over the past months (thanks to the BBC). Would we be asking the same question if Hillary Clinton would have been sucessfull? How do you feel about a woman president? (bearing in mind Bill would have been pulling at the skirt hem and she being a women would have been a different thread altogether) Looking at what you have now and the fact that GWB is a tad quirkey (when i say this i have the dancing at every opportunity in mind and the need for him to finish his dad's work in Iraq). All i have to say is give the guy a chance - black, pink, white, yellow spots landed from Mars, it doesn't really matter, you guys need a good solid front man and if i had to put the X in the box it would be him.
0 Replies
 
TilleyWink
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 02:38 pm
As a white woman and having studied women's history and black history a bit I know that out of every advance in civil right for black males is the advance of women of all colors. I am an Obama supporter since last June when Hillery was still very much in the lead. I would have loved Hill too but she is old school re politics, the ultimate insider, and what would we do with Bill again.

I also believe that the true fear of some white people, mostly men but some women too will be put to the test in the ballot box. And the hate will be out front too. Still I have high hope for Obama and I talk out loud about how much I favor having a Constitutional lawyer and Harvard grad as pres instead of a man who while a valiant hero still suffers I believer form intense PTSD. In addition, I add that McCain was never in combat. He left an aircraft carrier early in the Vietnam war and spent 10 years in a prison camp. He was not a soldier in the typical sense at all. Sure he suffered but he was not fighting on the ground not every.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 02:55 pm
TilleyWink wrote:
As a white woman and having studied women's history and black history a bit I know that out of every advance in civil right for black males is the advance of women of all colors.


However neither Hillary nor most of her middle aged feminist army act like this is true. The are pissed that yet again black men get something before white women do. Just once white women want to be first. Blacks got the vote first, got to be regular Army first and so so and so on. Women can be so pissy. This is bad news for Obama.
0 Replies
 
TilleyWink
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 02:59 pm
Not. Women want what is best for them period. They will vote Obama when considering the alternative.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 03:06 pm
TilleyWink wrote:
Not. Women want what is best for them period. They will vote Obama when considering the alternative.


Probably, but they mostly will not do it with a glad heart that America is moving forward and thus the last vestiges of female oppression will soon be gone. No, they will do it bitching and moaning that it should have been hillary, and that yet again they are forced to vote for a man. Feminists are not big hearted enough to be happy for Obama and the blacks, it is all about what women get so far as the feminists are concerned.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 03:17 pm
TilleyWink wrote:
...Still I have high hope for Obama and I talk out loud about how much I favor having a Constitutional lawyer and Harvard grad as pres instead of a man who while a valiant hero still suffers I believer form intense PTSD. In addition, I add that McCain was never in combat. He left an aircraft carrier early in the Vietnam war and spent 10 years in a prison camp. He was not a soldier in the typical sense at all. Sure he suffered but he was not fighting on the ground not every.


You substitute one category of lables, of which you evidently approve, for another of which you disapprove. The narrow-minded intolerance remains - only the direction is altered.

I submit that you don't know what the hell you are takling about with respect to McCain's experience of combat - unless of course you do have experience in the cramped cockpit of an A-4E on combat missions over Hanoi.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 05:26 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
TilleyWink wrote:
...Still I have high hope for Obama and I talk out loud about how much I favor having a Constitutional lawyer and Harvard grad as pres instead of a man who while a valiant hero still suffers I believer form intense PTSD. In addition, I add that McCain was never in combat. He left an aircraft carrier early in the Vietnam war and spent 10 years in a prison camp. He was not a soldier in the typical sense at all. Sure he suffered but he was not fighting on the ground not every.


You substitute one category of lables, of which you evidently approve, for another of which you disapprove. The narrow-minded intolerance remains - only the direction is altered.

I submit that you don't know what the hell you are takling about with respect to McCain's experience of combat - unless of course you do have experience in the cramped cockpit of an A-4E on combat missions over Hanoi.


and apparently you don't either, but, jeeze georgie why don't you just give the guy an oral knob job and be done with it

btw www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/mccain_post_card_word%5B1%5D.pdf

Quote:
FACT SHEET: Military record of John Sidney McCain III

Both McCain III's father and grandfather were Admirals in the United States Navy. His father
Admiral John S. "Junior" McCain was commander of U.S. forces in Europe - later commander of
American forces in Vietnam while McCain III was being held prisoner of war. His grandfather
John S. McCain, Sr. commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945.
McCain III, like his father and grandfather, also attended the United States Naval Academy.
McCain III finished near the bottom of his graduating class in 1958.

McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft

1 - Student pilot McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus
Christi Bay while practicing landings.
2 - Pilot McCain III lost another plane two years later while he was deployed in the
Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula, he took out some power lines
which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the
son of an admiral.

3 - Pilot McCain III lost number three in 1965 when he was returning from flying a Navy
trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. McCain III radioed, "I've got
a flameout" and ejected at one thousand feet. The plane crashed to the ground and
McCain III floated to a deserted beach.

4 - Combat pilot McCain III lost his fourth on July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to
the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk combat pilot. While waiting his turn for takeoff, an
accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain Jr's. plane. He escaped from the burning
aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft,
and threatened to sink the ship.

5 - Combat pilot McCain III lost a fifth plane three months later (Oct. 26, 1967) during his
23rd mission over North Vietnam when he failed to avoid a surface-to-air missile. McCain
III ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently
parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi. After being pulled from the lake by the North
Vietnamese, McCain III was bayoneted in his left foot and shoulder and struck by a rifle
butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.

1973 New York Daily News labeled POW McCain III a "PW Songbird"

On McCain III's fourth day of being denied medical treatment, slapped, and threatened with
death by the communist (they were demanding military information in exchange for medical
treatment), McCain III broke and told his interrogator, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you
will take me to the hospital." U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former
POW John McCain.

It was then that the communist learned that McCain III's father was Admiral John S. McCain,
the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific. The Vietnamese rushed McCain III to
Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable
for U.S. POWs.

By Nov. 9, 1967 (U.S. government documents) Hanoi press was quoting McCain III describing
his mission including the number of aircraft in his flight, information about rescue ships, and the
order of which U.S. attacks would take place.


While in still in North Vietnam's military hospital, McCain III gave an interview to prominent
French television reporter Francois Chalais for a series titled Life in Hanoi. Chalais' interview with
McCain III was aired in Europe.

Vietnamese doctors operated on McCain's Leg in early December, 1967.
Six weeks after he was shot down, McCain was taken from the hospital and delivered to a
U.S. POW camp,
In May of 1968, McCain III allowed himself to be interviewed by two North Vietnamese
generals at separate times." May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain

In August 1968, other POWs learned for the first time that John McCain III had been taken
prisoner.

On June 5, 1969, the New York Daily News reported in a article headlined Reds Say PW
Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral,
" . . . Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of
United States Commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits to having
bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical treatment he has received since
being taken prisoner . . ." The Washington Post explained McCain III's broadcast: "The English-
Language broadcast beamed at South Vietnam was one of a series using American prisoners.

It was in response to a plea by Defense Secretary Melvin S. Laird, May 19, that North Vietnam treat
prisoners according to the humanitarian standards set forth by the Geneva Convention."

In 1970, McCain III agreed to an interview with Dr. Fernando Barral, a Spanish psychiatrist
who was living in Cuba at the time.

The meeting between Barral and McCain III (which was photographed by the Vietnamese)
took place away from the prison at the office of the Committee for Foreign Cultural Relations in
Hanoi (declassified government document). During the meeting, POW McCain sipped coffee and
ate oranges and cakes with the Cuban.

While talking with Barral, McCain III further seriously violated the military Code of Conduct by
failing to evade answering questions "to the utmost of his ability" when he, according government
documents, helped Barral by answering questions in Spanish, a language McCain had learned in
school.

The interview was published in the in January 1970.
McCain III was released from North Vietnam March 15, 1973

In 1993, during one of his many trips back to Hanoi, McCain asked the Vietnamese not to
make public any records they hold pertaining to returned U.S. POWs
. McCain III claims, that
while a POW, he tried to kill himself.

McCain III was awarded "medals for valor" equal to nearly a medal-and-a-half for each
hour he spent in combat.


For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded
McCain III, the son of famous admirals, a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished
Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a
dozen service medals.

"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former
chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam
since the 1973 fall of Saigon.

"Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continued, "that equals to about a medal-and-a-half for
each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more
than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure
a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison.

The question really is how
many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."
For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and
biased news media.

The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed
to gloss over his failures as a pilot and his collaborations with the enemy to become America's
POW-hero presidential candidate.


btw my uncle died in combat in viet nam as an army grunt, and i don't believe that john mccain was nearly the man my uncle joe was. at least uncle joe never divulged information to the enemy like mccain did.
.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 05:54 pm
I don't know you and I didn't know your uncle. I do know John McCain and I was a Naval Aviator for nearly thirty years. For whatever its worth to you I lost three aircraft, two in training situations and one in combat. This was by no means atypical in those years. I also lost several squadronmates; some in peacetime accidents, some in combat. Most people couldn't handle it. Could you??
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 06:08 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
I don't know you and I don't know your uncle. I do know John McCain and I was a Naval Aviator for nearly thirty years. For whatever its worth to you I lost three aircraft, two in training situations and one in combat. This was by no means atypical in those years. Most people couldn't handle it. Could you??


btw, since you tend to ignore things that make you actually think, you never divulged troop information to the enemy, did you? so that makes you better material than mccain for president. because its not that he lost planes but that he exchanged better treatment for military information. that is, unless he used his station in society as an admiral's kid for treatment other POWs did not get.
0 Replies
 
TilleyWink
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 06:24 pm
georgeob1 are you always so mean? I am just one white woman with an opinion based on the virtue of having lived a long and varied life. I only care about descriptions like lawyer and Harvard and constitution because of the current state of political affairs in this country.

An outsider non lawyer has seen fit to create a personal and sort of royal vision of the constitution. I can only hope for a civil rights lawyer from Harvard to find a different meaning to the term President of the United States.

One does not need any experience in a jet to know right from wrong. While I personally have never been in or near a war I do know plenty of fighter pilots both Navy and Air Force and I do not think flying fast is any different than driving fast. I do not see nor hear of any NASCAR drivers claiming to have experience in world politics.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 07:20 pm
shewolfnm wrote:

People see skin color and automatically expect something...


the brilliance of this observation lies in it's simplicity.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jun, 2008 07:52 pm
yeah shewolf says a lot of simple ****
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2008 07:06 am
joefromchicago wrote:
woiyo wrote:
I am not black nor white, so to me this is more racist jive.

Translation help is available:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e269/zaidenwinters/airplane7a.jpg


I do not need a translation to see racism and prejudice from people like you and the a-hole who wrote the article.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2008 08:01 am
This may have been addressed already, only read the first couple of pages so far....

As far as Blacks calling Obama Tom for acting too White?

I'm White. That certainly doesn't mean every White person I see and interact with on a daily basis acts with the same caliber of "Whiteness" as I do.

I can only define the behavior of Whites within the context of how I personally behave. I am my own litmus test for how a White person should act.

Trouble is, no one acts quite like me, and many many, well, most White people are drastically different than me.

When I encounter someone acting what I consider far below my standards, or far above what I can only hope to achieve, do I say "They aren't acting White. Look at that one, collecting welfare and chewing with their mouths open. hmmph. I chew with my mouth closed. Look at that one, with their phd's and houses designed by professionals, and nanny's. hmmmph. who do they think they are, act all superior to me, a real White person.


I'm not afraid of a Black president.

But, contrary to the person snood talked about in the initial post, I don't this Obama is some once in a lifetime leader, or any more brilliant than many other people.

I'm going to vote for Obama because I think he'll do a better job than McCain.

Period.
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2008 08:04 am
Dont be so simple Chai


it is not acceptable dont'cha know..
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2008 08:15 am
The only reason I like you shewolf is that the white part of you happens to coincide with my whiteness.

I turn a blind eye to everything else, otherwise I'd constantly waiting for you to put peyote in my tea, or notice you sucking your teeth.
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2008 08:21 am
You give me no reason to get ethnic...but have no fear... I can click my teeth and roll my head with the best of them..

it is just a white world so I must behave appropriately..
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2008 08:23 am
What would I do that you would see as a reason to get ethnic? Confused
0 Replies
 
 

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