A Vice Presidental candidate thread.

I think it's very realistic. Maybe not in 10 years, but if try hard for 10, we might do it completely by 15. But we have to try or its never going to happen.

Be easier than getting an anti-IDer elected president I should think.

I expect there are a lot of women who don't believe that Hillary's position represents "those issues vital to most women", but rather that Palin's do. So for those people, as well as myself, she's very much appropriate to "shatter that final glass ceiling".

I don't believe Obama is the right African American to become the first president and will fight him every inch of the way to see that he doesn't get there, but at the same time, I have to respect him for his talents, skills, ambition and political ability. Shouldn't Palin be similarly respected, despite your opposition to her political views?

Not really; she doesn't have a similar level of talent, skills, or political ability as Obama. Not worthy of as much respect. She's a total neophyte to the national political scene and her executive experience isn't exactly from the largest state- the mayor of San Diego has responsibility for more souls then she does, and that's without bucketloads of oil money flowing in every year to help the budgets.

Plenty of ambition though, I'll give you that.

Cycloptichorn

Cyclo wrote-



Perhaps you don't understand politics Cyclo.

So I guess you'd agree that Obama is less worthy of respect than McCain.

I respect McCain's service, but I think that he is a worse politician then Obama in each and every single way. Without an heiress wife (who he cheated on his first wife with, dumped her, and then married) he never would have gone anywhere in politics. What's to respect there?

I'd love to hear you address his moral failings and tell me why he deserves respect for them.

Cycloptichorn

You ought to stick to drinking, and let us Yanks deal with our own business.

After all, like you said - we allow our women to vote, so Obama is a shoo-in.

Cycloptichorn

Hypocrisy about what. As usual, Bill, you blabber and bluster about what you manufacture out of what I have said about this woman.

To review what I have so far posted on 2 or 3 threads about Palin. I know not much about her, I listened to her speech, she seems genuine and is a great story in regard to her family and relatively short political career. A real person from real America, instead of some elitist Harvard or Yale law school graduate that thinks by virtue of being a lawyer or working in government all of their lives, they are therefore qualified to run the country and to make policy for all the rest of us in fly over country. Here, we have a woman that has been out there actually doing something, besides being an elitist. She is a real woman instead of a feminist, I think that is obvious, and I prefer real women, not feminists. And contrary to what you might believe, there are alot more women out there than there are feminists.

Now, as far as being vp, I have expressed my mild disappointment, and even skepticism, and I think this pick is a daring and bold pick, one that has alot of upside, but also alot of downside. I intend to learn more about her. So far, what I have seen and heard, I am going to consider the possibility that McCain and others have looked at her record and her potential with a fine tooth comb, and they like what they see, that is worth something to me. Beyond that, all I can do is follow this story and learn more about her. One of my concerns is just how informed is she about the world, the economy, and all the issues. I knew Romney was, and he impressed me in this regard, and I think his judgement was sound in all of these areas, if McCain died. Palen, I don't know, but I intend to find out. I do think she is smart however, and must know a few things to run the state of Alaska.

Nothing I have said here is hypocritical. I did the same thing with the Clintons, and with Obama. After learning more about them, I have decided they are not good choices for leading the country. The Clintons are too crooked, always have been, and Obama is not telling us who he really is. I have read his book, I have watched the debates, and I have followed his campaign, and I watched the DNC, and all of his speech.

Now, its McCain that is the president running against Obama, so that will determine probably 80% of my decision, the other 20% the vps. Biden is a windbag that has been wrong most of the time, so he gets a low grade. And now we have Palen, I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt, but examine her record closely. I see no hypocrisy whatsoever.

okie, how are you distinguishing between "real women" and "feminists"? And what makes you so sure that Palin is a "real woman"?

Seems to me that the first thing Palin did when she began speaking yesterday was to try to assert her feminist credentials. She thanked Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary Clinton for breaking down barriers for women, she said she now represents the chance for women to break through that final glass ceiling, and she mentioned that she belongs to a group called Feminists for Life (a pro-life group that asserts that abortion is not in a woman's best interests).

The woman considers herself a feminist, okie.

Does that mean she's not a "real woman"--whatever that means?

Or, do you think she's a "real woman" just because she's a former beauty queen, who has five kids, and calls herself a "hockey mom"? Or does the fact that she's a lifelong member of the NRA make her a "real woman"? What qualifies her to be a "real woman'?

But wait, didn't Palin want to break sexist barriers and become a sports announcer? Hasn't she been involved with local politics for many years, and isn't she a working woman who just happens to be the governor of her state? Not exactly your average "hockey mom" is she? Mightn't that make her very concerned with feminist issues like whether women receive equal treatment and equal opportunities in the workplace, and equal pay for equal work--the main issues that have always concerned feminists?

okie, I hate to tell you this, but all women are "real women" (unless you wish to discount the trans-gendered), and the majority of women are feminists who believe in equal rights and equal opportunities for women. And working women, including those in government, certainly are feminists.

Because a woman is pro-life regarding abortion, does not mean she is not a feminist. I would regard Governor Palin as a feminist. She is trying very hard to make it in "a man's world", and I am sure she does not wish to be discriminated against on the basis of her gender. Even though I might not agree with her politically, I am happy to see talented women succeeding, and I want them regarded with equal treatment and respect.

Similarly, I honestly do not know what you mean by "real Americans" or the "real America". I consider all of my fellow citizens "real Americans", even though we are a very diverse nation. The millionaires are as real as the factory workers, and the aged are as real as those still in college. Our large cities are as much the "real America" as are our small towns. Each area and group within our nation has it's own particular needs and special interests, and our elected officials try to make sure those are met. These elected officials are also "real Americans"--McCain, Palin, Obama, and Biden are all "real Americans"--and each of them has an interesting life story and background. McCain can fly around in his wife's private plane, while Biden commutes to work on the train. Obama has a law degree, while Palin majored in journalism. They come from different places and they have lived widely different lives. But all of them are hard-working Americans, and they have all been through difficult times in their life. Obviously, by the time you are a US Senator, or a governor, you have reached a position of power, but I don't think any of these people should be regarded as elitist. None of them started at the top, they have all done hard work to get where they are. They are all parents who care about their children and the future of their children. They are all real Americans who come from varying areas of the real America.

I vote for the people whose political philosophy, and positions on issues, most reflects my own views, and my own beliefs, about what is best for the country. But I want to see the best possible people listed on that ballot--including the ones I am not voting for.

Given the range of talent and experience in the Republican party, I think McCain erred woefully in selecting Palin as his running mate. She was not picked because he knows her well and trusts her judgment in matters--he met her only once or twice before yesterday. This pairing is sort of like a "blind date"--now they will really get to know each other. He did not pick her because she has a long record of accomplishment in governmental matters or because of her positions or expertise on foreign affairs or the national economy--on those matters she is manifestly deficient. He picked her because she is a staunch, fierce, evangelicial Christian, who previously backed Pat Buchanan, and he needs to solidify votes among the religious right. If she gets him a few more votes from women and from the NRA, that's great, but it's not her primary utility on the ticket. She is not on the ticket because she is qualified to step into the Oval Office should something happen to the president--she really is not--and, if that were McCain's main concern, he had many other better qualified Republicans to choose from than Palin. She is on this ticket to energize and get votes from the Christian right--apart from getting himself elected, McCain does not seem to care who sits a heartbeat away from the presidency.

Simply within my own lifetime, three presidents have been unable to serve out their terms. Roosevelt died in office, Kennedy was assassinated, and Nixon resigned. Clinton could have been removed from office after the impeachment, but it did not go that far.

So, just on the basis of recent history, it is very important who stands next in line to be president--because they might need to fill that role. Given the fact that McCain would be the oldest first term president in our history, and he has survived bouts with cancer, this is more than just a hypothetical concern.

Sarah Palin is not qualified, by any measure, to be president of the United States. She should not be on the ticket as VP.

I would not vote for McCain no matter who ran with him, but as I said before, I want the best possible people on both sides of the ticket, for the sake of our country, because one of them will win.

I do have qualms about Obama's relative lack of experience, that is why I initially supported, and voted for, Hillary Clinton. But Obama does have experience dealing with both national policy issues and domestic issues, he has obviously managed a huge and successful campaign and has inspired the registration of many new voters, in debates he proved himself fully conversant with all the crucial issues facing our country and his positions on matters are in accord with my own. He is an exceptionally intelligent and talented man, who appears to be flexible in his thinking, and I think he will be an outstanding president.

Sarah Palin is just not in Obama's league--she is not qualified to be a heartbeat away from the highest office in the land. I do not denigrate what she has accomplished, I can admire her for what she has done. She is a relatively big fish in a very small pond, and that small pond in Alaska she works in has nothing to do with the major foreign policy issues, security matters, or major economic problems that confront our nation as a whole. She has not even had to deal with many of the types of domestic major issues which confront the mayors of our large cities, or the governors of other states.
We do live in perilous times. We cannot trust the highest offices in our country to relative amateurs who are placed on a ticket only to appeal to certain blocks of voters, like the conversative religious right, with very little else going for them that suggests they could handle the presidency if that job was thrust upon them.

Firefly, well-said. APPLAUSE!!!!

A tape has been running on TV showing Palin being interviewed by a journalist several weeks ago. He asked her if she wants to be vice president?
Palin replied that she doesn't know yet because she needs to find out exactly what the vice president does every day to see if she would enjoy it.

McCain's vice presidential candidate doesn't know what the vice president does and if she would enjoy it?

The vice president's main job is to become president if the president dies or is unable to serve. I wonder if Palin has considered whether or not she is competent to become president? I doubt it.

BBB

That's an interesting choice of words....

BBB wrote-



Perhaps she has Dick Cheyney in mind. I think a lot of Americans, from what I've read, would have preferred a VP like Ms Palin for the last 8 years.

ff--I don't fancy taking on your stylish rant due to the tangled web of difficulties it represents.

On the notion of the "real woman" I refer you to the footnote on page 11 of Ted Hughes' masterpiece Shakespeare and The Goddess of Complete Being. It is shorter than the famous Schopenhauer essay and Veblen's two essays on the subject which are also relevant.

A real woman cannot really be trusted with a definition of the concept.

Cyclo wrote-



You don't think it is our business too do you not? I said you knew nothing about politics and that statement is proof of it if any more is needed.

Have you got a thing about drinking? Don't Yanks drink then?

Take a look at countries where booze is banned.

okie wrote-



About 20 times as many.

The trouble is okie that the small minority go into work in TV, newspapers and magazines and have an influence not only out of all proportion to their numbers but one that confuses the majority to the point of it hardly knowing which way up is.

Firefly wrote: "Given the range of talent and experience in the Republican party, I think McCain erred woefully in selecting Palin as his running mate. . . . She is not on the ticket because she is qualified to step into the Oval Office should something happen to the president--she really is not--and, if that were McCain's main concern, he had many other better qualified Republicans to choose from than Palin. She is on this ticket to energize and get votes from the Christian right--apart from getting himself elected, McCain does not seem to care who sits a heartbeat away from the presidency."

Here's what McCain said at the Republican presidential debate last November:



Part II Transcript:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/28/debate.transcript.part2/index.html

McCain clearly understood that his primary responsibility was to select a person who could immediately take his place as president, if necessary. By blatantly shirking his primary responsibility--a responsibility that he clearly understood and publicly stated--he has shown poor judgment. He has placed own ambition, party concerns, and pandering for votes above the best interests of this country. "Country first," indeed.

Unfortunately the American people seem to think that the main qualification for the office of President is "would you like to have a beer with them". And I bet Palin could fill that qualification pretty well.

You make your points cogently and well.

A real woman and a feminist, interesting subject, basically, Hillary is a good example of the latter, and on first evaluation, Palin might be a good example of the former. My opinion here in regard to Palin is based on incomplete information. Most pure feminists are very liberal, pro-abortion, into gay rights, and more into the socialist agenda. And many are almost to the point of being anti-man. I do not see Palin as resembling any of this based upon first evaluation. Just because she believes women should be treated with dignity, and just because she is competing in this world and doing well at it, does not make her a feminist. Her mention of Clinton and Ferraro, I interpret as a politically driven comment, basically to remind Democrat voters that women compete and do well without being a liberal Democrat, and that they might consider voting Republican. Another example of a woman doing well, but a person I would not consider a feminist, is Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice.

Indications that she is not a feminist, the feminists will begin to attack her viciously. She is not one of them.

Now the subject of a real person from real America. I agree every person is a real person, and if anyone lives in America, they are from America. I think you know what I mean. Often, we are left with a choice of someone that has not experienced fly over country. Clinton, for example, hardly ever held a job outside of government. In my way of thinking, he is not an example of a guy that I can identify with. He is not real. He should go back to Arkansas and get a real job, start a business, do something for a change.

Now, in regard to Obama, one of his qualifications is a "community organizer." What the heck is that? From what I have gathered, it is being a political activist. I rather think that someone that actually lived a normal life in a town, and became mayor is a much more real and normal example of what most people in this country could relate to. I don't frankly know any community organizers. All communities I have lived in have already been organized.

Inexperience, your point is good, I am frankly skeptical until Palin shows me that she is qualified. But being governor of a state seems like a much bigger job with more qualifications than being a senator, in my opinion.

Again, she isn't running for president, so the issue of experience applies primarily to Obama and McCain. Vps have on the job training, and no doubt this woman is smart and a quick learner. Perhaps it is refreshing to get an outsider instead of more Washington insiders. After all, Washington insiders have not done anything to brag about, maybe its time for somebody else to have a crack at it. Biden wanted to break up Iraq into 3 countries or so, and if that is what experience gives you, no thanks.

I didn't pick Palin, McCain did, so all I can do is try to look at this objectively, and first blush, what a refreshing alternative to the old worn out and not even likable Hillary. Again why doesn't she go back to Arkansas or somewhere and run for mayor, start a business, do something meaningful, like real women do?

I'm surprised you admit there is talent in the Republican Party, and it is my guess that no matter who was picked, you would not approve. Also admit most vps are picked for one primary reason, that he or she will help the ticket become elected, which includes several factors, state where they reside, ability to draw more support to the ticket, character, current job, experience, approval ratings, ability, reputation, wisdom, energetic drive, and an ability to be president if need be down the road. I think McCain concluded she fit all of those qualifications, and some of them exceptionally well.