0
   

Obama's electability

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 02:40 pm
Quote:
But this is a pattern that seems to be emerging with Obama and does expose the fact that he very often is not familiar with his subject and/or is easily rattled in extemporaneous speaking.


Very Happy Laughing Laughing

There is no 'pattern' emerging.

But I do understand that you bunch are casting about for ANYTHING which looks like it could hurt him. This right here, is nothing; you'll get far more desperate and shrill as time goes on.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 02:52 pm
Is there any doubt that we would not have a brokered Democratic Convention this year if the Super Delegates had not selected Obama? I wonder if anybody on the Left is able to actually consider the message in this piece or will we just see the usual series of pages damning Ann Coulter?

OBAMA WAS SELECTED, NOT ELECTED
June 4, 2008

Words mean nothing to liberals. They say whatever will help advance their cause at the moment, switch talking points in a heartbeat, and then act indignant if anyone uses the exact same argument they were using five minutes ago.

When Gore won the popular vote in the 2000 election by half a percentage point, but lost the Electoral College -- or, for short, "the constitutionally prescribed method for choosing presidents" -- anyone who denied the sacred importance of the popular vote was either an idiot or a dangerous partisan.

But now Hillary has won the popular vote in a Democratic primary, while Obambi has won under the rules. In a spectacular turnabout, media commentators are heaping sarcasm on our plucky Hillary for imagining the "popular vote" has any relevance whatsoever.

It's the exact same situation as in 2000, with Hillary in the position of Gore and Obama in the position of Bush. The only difference is: Hillary has a much stronger argument than Gore ever did (and Hillary's more of a man than Gore ever was).

Unbeknownst to liberals, who seem to imagine the Constitution is a treatise on gay marriage, our Constitution sets forth rules for the election of a president. Under the Constitution that has led to the greatest individual liberty, prosperity and security ever known to mankind, Americans have no constitutional right to vote for president, at all. (Don't fret Democrats: According to five liberals on the Supreme Court, you do have a right to sodomy and abortion!)

Americans certainly have no right to demand that their vote prevail over the electors' vote.

The Constitution states that electors from each state are to choose the president, and it is up to state legislatures to determine how those electors are selected. It is only by happenstance that most states use a popular vote to choose their electors.

When you vote for president this fall, you will not be voting for Barack Obama or John McCain; you will be voting for an elector who pledges to cast his vote for Obama or McCain. (For those new Obama voters who may be reading, it's like voting for Paula, Randy or Simon to represent you, instead of texting your vote directly.)

Any state could abolish general elections for president tomorrow and have the legislature pick the electors. States could also abolish their winner-take-all method of choosing presidential electors -- as Nebraska and Maine have already done, allowing their electors to be allocated in proportion to the popular vote. And of course there's always the option of voting electors off the island one by one.

If presidential elections were popular vote contests, Bush might have spent more than five minutes campaigning in big liberal states like California and New York. But under a winner-take-all regime, close doesn't count. If a Republican doesn't have a chance to actually win a state, he may as well lose in a landslide. Using the same logic, Gore didn't spend a lot of time campaigning in Texas (and Walter Mondale campaigned exclusively in Minnesota).

Consequently, under both the law and common sense, the famed "popular vote" is utterly irrelevant to presidential elections. It would be like the winner of "Miss Congeniality" claiming that title also made her "Miss America." Obviously, Bush might well have won the popular vote, but he would have used a completely different campaign strategy.

By contrast, there are no constitutional rules to follow with party primaries. Primaries are specifically designed by the parties to choose their strongest candidate for the general election.

Hillary's argument that she won the popular vote is manifestly relevant to that determination. Our brave Hillary has every right to take her delegates to the Democratic National Convention and put her case to a vote. She is much closer to B. Hussein Obama than the sainted Teddy Kennedy was to Carter in 1980 when Teddy staged an obviously hopeless rules challenge at the convention. (I mean rules about choosing the candidate, not rules about crushed ice at after-parties.)

And yet every time Hillary breathes a word about her victory in the popular vote, TV hosts respond with sneering contempt at her gaucherie for even mentioning it. (Of course, if popularity mattered, networks like MSNBC wouldn't exist. That's a station that depends entirely on "superviewers.")

After nearly eight years of having to listen to liberals crow that Bush was "selected, not elected," this is a shocking about-face. Apparently unaware of the new party line that the popular vote amounts to nothing more than warm spit, just last week HBO ran its movie "Recount," about the 2000 Florida election, the premise of which is that sneaky Republicans stole the presidency from popular vote champion Al Gore. (Despite massive publicity, the movie bombed, with only about 1 million viewers, so now HBO is demanding a "recount.")

So where is Kevin Spacey from HBO's "Recount," to defend Hillary, shouting: "WHO WON THIS PRIMARY?"

In the Democrats' "1984" world, the popular vote is an unconcept, doubleplusungood verging crimethink. We have always been at war with Eastasia.
LINK
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 03:11 pm
I wonder if anybody on the right is able to actually consider a message from the left or would we just see the usual series of pages damning Noam Chomsky?
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 03:15 pm
Ann Coulter wrote:
But now Hillary has won the popular vote in a Democratic primary


Except for that tiny niggling fact that no, she DIDN'T win the popular vote by any reasonable measure.

(The measures that indicate that she did win the popular vote do things like include all of her votes in Michigan while including zero votes for Obama there. Is that realistic, when "uncommitted" got 40% of the vote there?)
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 04:13 pm
sozobe wrote:
Ann Coulter wrote:
But now Hillary has won the popular vote in a Democratic primary


Except for that tiny niggling fact that no, she DIDN'T win the popular vote by any reasonable measure.

Please, niggler!
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 04:43 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Cindy McCain's net worth is somewhere around 20+ times that of the Obama's. I think her complaining about being able to afford anything is a little bit of a laugh.

Cycloptichorn


But unless you can show us otherwise, Cindy McCain is not complaining about being able to afford anything, while Millionaire Michele is.


I agree. I was merely responding to this phrase by Fox -

"Can you imagine the bruhaha if Laura Bush or Cindy McCain said something like that?"

Cycloptichorn


In a peculiar way.

Are you suggesting that it's a "bit laughable" for Mrs McCain to complain about affording something, but not so with Mrs Obama?


It's a question of degree. I have a hard time seeing how the Obamas would have a tough time affording stuff; but, it's fair to say that their star has risen considerably in the last 4 years. Cindy McCain was uber-rich from day one. Not the same thing at all. One is much harder to believe then the other; Cindy McCain never wanted for a thing in her life...

Cycloptichorn


Do you appreciate how ridiculous your distinction is?

On the one hand we have "very very rich" Cindy McCain who is not complaining about the cost of things and on the other we have "very rich" Michelle Obama who is complaining, and you keep trying your damnedest to twist the subject into a knock against Cindy McCain.

You have a "hard time" seeing how the Obama's would have a tough time affording anything.

I'm sure you would. For non-believers it's not a subject for mental struggle. They don't have a tough time affording anything the people who they claim as their constituency really struggle for, or don't even hope to have.

That they weren't always very rich is an incredibly ridiculous excuse for whining complaints when they are very rich.

It amazes me that the Liberals who champion redistribution of wealth never demand it of their icons.

Why do the Obamas or the Clintons or the Kennedys or the Edwards etc etc etc deserve their considerable wealth more than a CEO of a company that is actually providing the American public with tangible goods and services?

I really would love to see one of you Lefties try and explain why it is OK for Liberal politicans to be filthy rich.

I know you consider yourself a loyal foot soldier in the Obama Army, but try and get a grip. Barrack is not monitoring this site and you are not positioning yourself for a cabinet position by your fanatic defense of the guy.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 04:45 pm
dyslexia wrote:
I wonder if anybody on the right is able to actually consider a message from the left or would we just see the usual series of pages damning Noam Chomsky?


I'm sure you do.

Quick --- without consulting Wikipedia, who is Noam Chomsky?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 04:48 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
I wonder if anybody on the right is able to actually consider a message from the left or would we just see the usual series of pages damning Noam Chomsky?


I'm sure you do.

Quick --- without consulting Wikipedia, who is Noam Chomsky?


I walked right past him the other day, chatting with what looked to be some other professors.

Didn't know that it was him for sure until I pulled up a picture tho...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 04:57 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
I wonder if anybody on the right is able to actually consider a message from the left or would we just see the usual series of pages damning Noam Chomsky?


I'm sure you do.

Quick --- without consulting Wikipedia, who is Noam Chomsky?


I walked right past him the other day, chatting with what looked to be some other professors.

Didn't know that it was him for sure until I pulled up a picture tho...

Cycloptichorn


Oooh! Now that is uber sick dude! You actually saw the Chom?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 04:59 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
I wonder if anybody on the right is able to actually consider a message from the left or would we just see the usual series of pages damning Noam Chomsky?


I'm sure you do.

Quick --- without consulting Wikipedia, who is Noam Chomsky?


I walked right past him the other day, chatting with what looked to be some other professors.

Didn't know that it was him for sure until I pulled up a picture tho...

Cycloptichorn


Oooh! Now that is uber sick dude! You actually saw the Chom?


Is there some sort of cache, or prize attached to a sighting?

Just another old guy with an opinion, to me, like so many others on the left and right.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 05:11 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
I wonder if anybody on the right is able to actually consider a message from the left or would we just see the usual series of pages damning Noam Chomsky?


I'm sure you do.

Quick --- without consulting Wikipedia, who is Noam Chomsky?


I walked right past him the other day, chatting with what looked to be some other professors.

Didn't know that it was him for sure until I pulled up a picture tho...

Cycloptichorn


Oooh! Now that is uber sick dude! You actually saw the Chom?


Is there some sort of cache, or prize attached to a sighting?

Just another old guy with an opinion, to me, like so many others on the left and right.

Cycloptichorn


Prize? Dude, who knows? You were the one who seems to have thought that a Chomsky sighting was something worth posting in this forum.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 06:23 pm
Just thought it was a funny coincidence.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jun, 2008 11:02 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You're no Dem, to be saying that.

You haven't done any research about Obama, yet claim he's a 'blank page.' What dishonesty. What is it you would like to know? His resume is at least as long as that of his opponent; he's put in roughly the same amount of government service relative to his age...

My guess is that his race and the fact he's of muslim descent means more to you then just about everything else, based on a few comments you've made in the last several months. Typical, but disappointing.

Cycloptichorn


Do you really KNOW whether he has done "any research" on Obama as you so blithely claim? Do you actually believe the length of a resume has any relevance to anything serious - including employment decisions?? Do you really believe the truth of your absurd proposition that Obama has been equivalently tested and tempered by serious, challenging experience as John McCain?

Do you really believe you are endowed with the ability to see into the minds and souls of others here and have the ability to know - as you claimed above - what are their real motivations. You describe yourself as "disappointed" with the insight -- who made you the judge?

In ordinary conversation these traits are often called ignorance, prejudice, delusions, and worse.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jun, 2008 07:36 am
Sometimes I think the Obamamaniacs try not to do much serious research on their candidate. It's like they really don't want to know. Or maybe they actually believe he knows what he is talking about when it says, for instance, "it is a matter of fairness" to raise the capital gains tax on the 'wealthy' etc.

Obama seems to be unaware of the ramifications of what he proposes; a naivete that McCain, while being no economic guru himself, at least has the experience to avoid.

The economy managed only two years of 4% or more growth in the decade prior to 1997. Clinton and the Republican controlled Congress lowered the rate from 28% to 20% that year and notched achieved three straight years of such growth in 1997, 1998, and 1999 which, coupled with better fiscal management, resulted in that surplus the Dems are so fond of bragging about.

The amount of tax that IRS collected on Capital Gains quadrupled since the tax was lowered again in 2003.

With millions and millions of otherwise underfunded retirees depending on those capital gains to support them in retirement, Obama seems oblivious to the economic ramifications of confiscating those funds in significantly higher taxes.

There are some concerns about McCain too, of course, but he won't make those kinds of mistakes.

If Obama is elected, I think it will be because Obama speaks well and looks good and isn't a Republican. It won't be because his followers dared to honestly evaluate what he proposes to do as President. They seem to be expending much of their political energy criticizing or condemning those of us who are.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jun, 2008 07:49 am
Foxfyre wrote:
The amount of tax that IRS collected on Capital Gains quadrupled since the tax was lowered again in 2003.

In what year were capital gains revenues four times higher than pre-2003 levels?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jun, 2008 07:55 am
joefromchicago wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
The amount of tax that IRS collected on Capital Gains quadrupled since the tax was lowered again in 2003.

In what year were capital gains revenues four times higher than pre-2003 levels?


Don't know. Why do you ask? I didn't say that that they were in any year since 2003.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jun, 2008 07:59 am
Foxfyre wrote:
joefromchicago wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
The amount of tax that IRS collected on Capital Gains quadrupled since the tax was lowered again in 2003.

In what year were capital gains revenues four times higher than pre-2003 levels?


Don't know. Why do you ask? I didn't say that that they were in any year since 2003.


Question

Can you explain what you mean Fox?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jun, 2008 08:01 am
Foxfyre wrote:
joefromchicago wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
The amount of tax that IRS collected on Capital Gains quadrupled since the tax was lowered again in 2003.

In what year were capital gains revenues four times higher than pre-2003 levels?


Don't know. Why do you ask? I didn't say that that they were in any year since 2003.
Laughing
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jun, 2008 08:08 am
McGentrix wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
joefromchicago wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
The amount of tax that IRS collected on Capital Gains quadrupled since the tax was lowered again in 2003.

In what year were capital gains revenues four times higher than pre-2003 levels?


Don't know. Why do you ask? I didn't say that that they were in any year since 2003.


Question

Can you explain what you mean Fox?


I mean the revenues from capital gains have increased significantly since the rate reduction in 2003. I meant overall, not annually. Going back to look at the actual figures, however, I did exaggerate.

Quote:
In 2003, capital gains tax rates were reduced from 20 percent and 10 percent (depending on income) to 15 percent and 5 percent. Rather than expand by 36 percent from the current $50 billion level to $68 billion in 2006 as the CBO projected before the tax cut, capital gains revenues more than doubled to $103 billion.[10] (See Chart 2.) Past capĀ­ital gains tax cuts have shown similar results. -- Heritage Foundation analysis


So I should have said doubled by the end of January 2007 instead of quadrupled though we are 17 months later than that analysis now so it might be quadrupled by now. LINK
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Jun, 2008 08:12 am
Foxfyre wrote:
joefromchicago wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
The amount of tax that IRS collected on Capital Gains quadrupled since the tax was lowered again in 2003.

In what year were capital gains revenues four times higher than pre-2003 levels?


Don't know. Why do you ask?

Because I wanted to find out if your sources said something that my sources did not.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st307/images/table5.png

Foxfyre wrote:
I didn't say that that they were in any year since 2003.

You've got to be kidding.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 01/08/2025 at 11:37:13