9
   

The Case Against John McCain

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 10:55 am
Of course it is, don't be a moron.

Quote:
McCain Signs on For More Bush Bamboozlement!

For those of you who remember President Bush's 2005 crusade to phase out Social Security by privatizing the program and converting it into a system of private investment accounts, you know that one of the biggest lines of bamboozlement was the White House's attempt to take the word for Social Security privatization -- i.e., 'privatization' -- and pretend that it was a word Democrats had come up with and one that was unfair for any members of the press to use.

Needless to say, not only is 'privatization' an accurate description of the policy but it's also the one Republicans came up with and the one they used until polls showed definitively that the American people want to preserve Social Security and weren't for privatizing it. So 'privatization' was consigned to the memory hole and Republican spinmeisters tried to find as many ignorant or gullible journalists as they could to allow them to keep changing the name of their policy in order to trick the public into accepting a policy they didn't like.

After they dropped 'privatization' they called it 'private accounts'. And when 'private accounts' tanked too, they said that 'private accounts' wasn't fair either. They were really 'personal accounts.' The whole thing just got silly and sad.


It didn't work in 2005. But now McCain -- he of the straight talk -- is trotting it out again.


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/200044.php

A personal account IS privitization. It's the exact same thing that Bush and the Republican party referred to as privatization, until that word started polling really badly amongst the elderly. It's the same program with a different name.

And yes, McCain supported Privatization in 2004 and he supports it today. It's not twisting anything to say that, just accurately looking at his record.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 11:00 am
This video evidently catches McCain saying the word "privatization," too (in 2004):

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/200055.php
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 11:01 am
Thanks Soz!

It's pretty clear that McCain is going to be hurt by this issue.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 11:19 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Of course it is, don't be a moron.

Quote:
McCain Signs on For More Bush Bamboozlement!

For those of you who remember President Bush's 2005 crusade to phase out Social Security by privatizing the program and converting it into a system of private investment accounts, you know that one of the biggest lines of bamboozlement was the White House's attempt to take the word for Social Security privatization -- i.e., 'privatization' -- and pretend that it was a word Democrats had come up with and one that was unfair for any members of the press to use.

Needless to say, not only is 'privatization' an accurate description of the policy but it's also the one Republicans came up with and the one they used until polls showed definitively that the American people want to preserve Social Security and weren't for privatizing it. So 'privatization' was consigned to the memory hole and Republican spinmeisters tried to find as many ignorant or gullible journalists as they could to allow them to keep changing the name of their policy in order to trick the public into accepting a policy they didn't like.

After they dropped 'privatization' they called it 'private accounts'. And when 'private accounts' tanked too, they said that 'private accounts' wasn't fair either. They were really 'personal accounts.' The whole thing just got silly and sad.


It didn't work in 2005. But now McCain -- he of the straight talk -- is trotting it out again.


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/200044.php

A personal account IS privitization. It's the exact same thing that Bush and the Republican party referred to as privatization, until that word started polling really badly amongst the elderly. It's the same program with a different name.

And yes, McCain supported Privatization in 2004 and he supports it today. It's not twisting anything to say that, just accurately looking at his record.

Cycloptichorn


You are to narrow minded to understand the difference between supplementing the current system with a private account.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 11:23 am
No, you just don't know what you are talking about on this issue at all. You obviously haven't studied the history of it or the proposals. It's sad that their changing of the word 'privatization' to 'personal accounts' fooled you.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 11:36 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
No, you just don't know what you are talking about on this issue at all. You obviously haven't studied the history of it or the proposals. It's sad that their changing of the word 'privatization' to 'personal accounts' fooled you.

Cycloptichorn


You unfairly malign Woiyo, Cy. He's from Reality, Earth, a place where folks are allowed to memorize memes. Are you suggesting that these Republican memes are false? They've been repeated time after time after time after time. At some point along the way, they turn into the truth. That's a fact 'cause we've seen it happen countless times.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 12:39 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
No, you just don't know what you are talking about on this issue at all. You obviously haven't studied the history of it or the proposals. It's sad that their changing of the word 'privatization' to 'personal accounts' fooled you.

Cycloptichorn


Your ignorance apparently can not be cured.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 12:43 pm
woiyo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
No, you just don't know what you are talking about on this issue at all. You obviously haven't studied the history of it or the proposals. It's sad that their changing of the word 'privatization' to 'personal accounts' fooled you.

Cycloptichorn


Your ignorance apparently can not be cured.


You are retreating to empty attacks, when you have no real substantive defense of your position. I don't believe you understand what 'privatization' of SS means, or how the so-called 'personal accounts' amount to exactly that. Instead, you're just sort of embarrassing yourself by continuing.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 12:47 pm
McCain's Role in the WMD Cover up

John McCain and Charlie Black's War
How a Senator and a Lobbyist Led the Deception Campaign
that Tricked the U.S.

By Mark G. Levey
Part 2, Part 3

April 25, 2008

Who's responsible for the "intelligence failure" that plunged the U.S. into the Iraq War? As much as anyone else, that distinction is shared by two Americans who discovered and nurtured Ahmad Chalabi and "Curveball", and pushed their fortunes in Washington.

One of those men is currently the presumptive Republican candidate for President of the United States, and the other is his chief political fixer.

This is the story about how they did it, and then shifted the spotlight of intelligence failure, political scandal, and criminal conspiracy off themselves.

***

Here are some key events to keep in mind as the Iraq War deception unfolds:

• 1998-2003 - John McCain enthusiastically espoused the delusion about cheap and easy Middle East wars, and sponsored Ahmed Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress (INC) organization, even though the CIA had cut it off for producing faulty intelligence.

• 1998 - McCain was a co-sponsor of the Iraq Liberation Act that led to the creation of a false intelligence factory that replaced CIA Iraq reporting. He led charges in the Senate about Iraqi WMD programs that U.S. intelligence was reporting didn't exist.

• 2001-2003 - Using $100 million allocated by the Act cosponsored by McCain, Ahmed Chalabi's INC generated the false intelligence about nonexistent mobile bioweapons labs cited as part of the case for the Iraq invasion. INC Chalabi's group was paid $335,000 a month in the lead-up to the Iraq war to gather intelligence.

• 2003 - McCain and four other Republican Senators made an appeal to Bush to "personally clear the bureaucratic roadblocks within the State Department" that stood in the way of even more funding for the INC McCain acted as a character witness for Chalabi, stating "He's a patriot who has the best interests of his country at heart."

• Prior to advocating in favor of the October, 2002 Iraq War Resolution, McCain read the classified CIA National Intelligence Estimate (NIE), and was briefed on multiple occasions about it. While he knew that U.S. intelligence was split over Iraq WMDs, McCain never said anything publicly about the other view contained in the classified documents in which he had been given special access.

• 05/03 - present - Even after the Iraq WMD deception and failed occupation became clear, McCain has refused to acknowledge that he had been wrong all along about the justifications for the Iraq War, and says he would vote again for that war, and again vote to fund Chalabi.

• Senator McCain still avoids taking responsibility for his role in the Iraq intelligence failure, perhaps for no better reason than he kept some distance between himself and operatives at the Pentagon and in the Office of the Vice President who actually carried out the policy, some of whom were later convicted of espionage and related charges.

• 1997-present - The McCain campaign's chief publicist, Charlie Black, a powerful GOP lobbyist, has protected and promoted the cause of Ahmad Chalabi's INC organization in Washington since 1997, and also played a major role in spreading INC disinformation.

• 1997-present - As the Iraq War plan developed, Black's lobbying firm has received hundreds of millions from U.S. companies doing Iraq War related business, a substantial portion of the profits from which Black has funneled back to McCain and other prominent GOP leaders

Iraq War: Made in the USA
http://electionfraudnews.com/News/US/McCainCrimes1.htm
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 01:22 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
No, you just don't know what you are talking about on this issue at all. You obviously haven't studied the history of it or the proposals. It's sad that their changing of the word 'privatization' to 'personal accounts' fooled you.

Cycloptichorn


Your ignorance apparently can not be cured.


You are retreating to empty attacks, when you have no real substantive defense of your position. I don't believe you understand what 'privatization' of SS means, or how the so-called 'personal accounts' amount to exactly that. Instead, you're just sort of embarrassing yourself by continuing.

Cycloptichorn


I already posted what I believe which came from the web site and seems reasonable to me.

You want me to believe what you percieve to be the truth. You have been unable to convince me McCain flip flopped.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 01:26 pm
sozobe wrote:
This video evidently catches McCain saying the word "privatization," too (in 2004):

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/200055.php


Watch the video. McCain himself calls it 'privatization.'

It isn't like we're making this up, Woiyo, he really was for this back when all the loyal Republicans were for it, in 2004.

There is no difference between 'personal accounts' which take money from SS funds - like those proposed by McCain and Bush - and Privatization, which is what they previously called the exact same thing.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 01:28 pm
woiyo wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Of course it is, don't be a moron.

Quote:
McCain Signs on For More Bush Bamboozlement!

For those of you who remember President Bush's 2005 crusade to phase out Social Security by privatizing the program and converting it into a system of private investment accounts, you know that one of the biggest lines of bamboozlement was the White House's attempt to take the word for Social Security privatization -- i.e., 'privatization' -- and pretend that it was a word Democrats had come up with and one that was unfair for any members of the press to use.

Needless to say, not only is 'privatization' an accurate description of the policy but it's also the one Republicans came up with and the one they used until polls showed definitively that the American people want to preserve Social Security and weren't for privatizing it. So 'privatization' was consigned to the memory hole and Republican spinmeisters tried to find as many ignorant or gullible journalists as they could to allow them to keep changing the name of their policy in order to trick the public into accepting a policy they didn't like.

After they dropped 'privatization' they called it 'private accounts'. And when 'private accounts' tanked too, they said that 'private accounts' wasn't fair either. They were really 'personal accounts.' The whole thing just got silly and sad.


It didn't work in 2005. But now McCain -- he of the straight talk -- is trotting it out again.


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/200044.php

A personal account IS privitization. It's the exact same thing that Bush and the Republican party referred to as privatization, until that word started polling really badly amongst the elderly. It's the same program with a different name.

And yes, McCain supported Privatization in 2004 and he supports it today. It's not twisting anything to say that, just accurately looking at his record.

Cycloptichorn


You are to narrow minded to understand the difference between supplementing the current system with a private account.


If you go back and Google "McCain Privatizing social security" you'll find several news stories from back both in 2002 and 2005 taking McCain to task for supporting Bush's social security plan. That plan was quite clearly, not just the addition of private accounts. It was a reduction in the current social security system as well.

This is a valid critisism of McCain's double-talk.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 01:29 pm
Per CNN, things don't look good for McCain and the Republicans.

Quote:
How enthusiastic are you about voting in this year's Presidential election?

"Extremely" or "very" enthusiastic:
Democrats: 63 percent
Republicans: 37 percent

"Not enthusiastic"
Democrats:16 percent
Republicans: 36 percent

Republicans are far less enthusiastic about voting than Democrats are, and enthusiasm has plummeted among GOPers since the start of the year," said Keating Holland, CNN polling director. "There was already an 'enthusiasm gap' in January, when Democrats were 11 points higher than GOPers on this measure. Now, that gap has grown to 26 points."

"Bottom line: After eight years of the Bush presidency, Republicans are demoralized," said Bill Schneider, CNN senior political analyst.


What is McCain going to do to turn those numbers around?

Nothing. He doesn't have the ability to excite. Instead, he will try and tear Obama down, make him unacceptable, by using every cheap trick and dirty tactic that the RNC can think of. And it's going to backfire horribly.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 03:10 pm
Here's McCain today on SS:

Quote:
MCCAIN: I would like for younger workers, younger workers only, to have an opportunity to take a few of their tax dollars, a few of theirs, and maybe put it into an account with their name on it. That's their money. That's their money. So. So when I say that. So when I say that, please don't let them twist that as they have others. It's their money, it's their money. And we will make sure that present day retirees, I will commit, have the benefits that they have earned. And nothing, any proposal would change that.


He is clearly talking about taking money from SS funds, and slotting it into private accounts. This is the very definition of privatization of SS. It is 100% the same as the Bush plan for SS.

Yet another failed policy, supported by McCain.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 04:47 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Here's McCain today on SS:

Quote:
MCCAIN: I would like for younger workers, younger workers only, to have an opportunity to take a few of their tax dollars, a few of theirs, and maybe put it into an account with their name on it. That's their money. That's their money. So. So when I say that. So when I say that, please don't let them twist that as they have others. It's their money, it's their money. And we will make sure that present day retirees, I will commit, have the benefits that they have earned. And nothing, any proposal would change that.


He is clearly talking about taking money from SS funds, and slotting it into private accounts. This is the very definition of privatization of SS. It is 100% the same as the Bush plan for SS.

Yet another failed policy, supported by McCain.

Cycloptichorn


The policy didnt fail, it was never attempted.
The dems used every scare tactic they knew to block the plan, without giving it a chance to be implemented.

I personally would prefer the chance to invest and plan for my own future, without the govt attempting to do it for me.
A simple savings account at your local bank earns more in interest then SS does, and the market also does better, long term.

So lets be honest, the plan didnt fail, it wasnt tried.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 09:25 pm
The plan failed, due to an overwhelming lack of support from the American public.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Jun, 2008 09:42 pm
I am shocked, just absolutely floored. It must have been his handlers. The "Maverick" would never do such a thing.


Quote:


McCain Stacks Fox News 'Town Hall' With Supporters

Tonight was the first in a much-hyped series of 'town hall' forums scheduled by John McCain's campaign, in which Barack Obama had been challenged to show up to discuss the issues directly with the GOP nominee.

Except, as Fox News reported, McCain's campaign misled the public about the nature of the event. The forum was "billed by the McCain campaign as a town hall with independent and Democratic voters," but Fox News noted at the end that the audience was actually "made up of invited guests and supporters," the Democratic National Committee said in a statement.

Here is FNC's Shepard Smith breaking the news:

SMITH: "I reported at the top of this hour that the campaign had told us at Fox News that the audience would be made up of Republicans, Democrats, and independents. We have now received a clarification from the campaign and I feel I should pass it along to you. The McCain campaign distributed tickets to supporters, Mayor Bloomberg, who of course is a registered Republican, and other independent groups."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/12/mccain-stacks-fox-news-to_n_106881.html

0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2008 07:59 am
How courageous of the hero.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 03:37 pm
Kevin Drum wrote:
MR. STRAIGHT TALK.... Let me get this straight. John McCain isn't in favor of Social Security privatization. He's just in favor of allowing workers to divert a part of their payroll taxes into private accounts.

And me? I don't like chocolate ice cream. I merely crave frozen dairy treats flavored with the fermented extract of the tropical cacao tree.

Sheesh.


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_06/013906.php
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 07:26 pm
More in Europe Have Confidence in Obama's Foreign Policy than McCain's
Country Obama McCain
France 84 33
Germany 82 33
Britain 74 44
Spain 72 19
Poland 53 37
Russia 39 22
Percent in each country who say they have a lot or some confidence in said leader to do the right thing in world affairs.
Source: Pew Global Attitudes Project
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,559467,00.html
0 Replies
 
 

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