Real Dilemma

oralloy wrote:

If I were a Republican, my party wouldn't be trying to disenfranchise me.

Food for thought.....

But you are a Republican, aren't you? If not in the sense of being a registered Republican, at least in the sense that that's your party of preference? The party you usually vote for?

I mean, which of the following candidates did you vote for? Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Dukakis, Mondale. I can only guess, but on the basis of your posts here I'd say probably just 1, maybe.

I dont know, that kind of puts your lengthy treatises about how you feel disenfranchised by the Democratic National Committee's decision to strip Michigan of its delegates if it were to break the primary calendar rules in a slightly different light.

oralloy wrote:

engineer wrote:

talk72000 wrote:

Let Democracy run its course and allow the Michigan and Florida delegations in the Convention floor to decide the fate of both Obama and Hillary. If these two states are denied their participation they will deny the Democratic nominee their votes in the General Election. The Democratic nominee is damaged. Either Obama or Hillary will lose if these two states are left out. The Democratic leadership is an ass in denying these two states their votes for a minor infraction. It's like handing out a death penalty for shoplifting.

No, more like handing out the West Virginia penalty for trying to turn Texas and Ohio into West Virginia. These states were trying to deny Texas, Ohio, Penn, NC, Indiana, etc their say by deciding the election early. By all means, make them sit it out to see how it feels.

Excuse me, but we already know how it feels. The reason we moved our primary forward was because it has been done to us for decades and we are challenging an unjust system.

The people who don't want to seat our delegates just hate democracy and want to keep Michigan from ever having a say in any election.

You could have moved your primary to super Tuesday if you wanted an equal say. Instead you wanted everyone to suck up to you, to have more say than everyone else.

Instead you wanted everyone to suck up to you, to have more say than everyone else.

It seems like the folks who scheduled the Michigan primary early were the democracy haters.

Yeah...

And I don't know if this is the best place for it -- doesn't have anything directly to do with what Oralloy was saying -- but with all the MI/ FL delegate talk this has been on my mind...

What about the disenfranchisement of the voters who actually believed the MI/ FL vote wouldn't count?

I've mentioned my cousin in Florida who is a major Obama supporter, but who is also a very busy mom and who didn't vote because she believed the FL primary vote was meaningless. How is she represented if Hillary somehow manages to get the FL vote counted, as-is?

From 1996 on, the radical anti-gun stances of the Democratic nominees have prevented me from voting for them.

The joke that is the Michigan Democratic Party just revealed themselves for the bunch of braindead chimps they are.

Keep saying "Union Yes" and vote for who they tell you too. Those Democrats don't want to take away your guns... trust us....

BWAHAHAHAHA!

engineer wrote:

Instead you wanted everyone to suck up to you, to have more say than everyone else.

Sort of like that African American woman who refused to move to the back of the bus despite being told the consequences, some decades back.

engineer wrote:

It seems like the folks who scheduled the Michigan primary early were the democracy haters.

No, all they wanted is a system that treats Michigan fairly for once.

Oralloy wrote:

From 1996 on, the radical anti-gun stances of the Democratic nominees have prevented me from voting for them.

So how come you aren't laughing at the Dems instead of getting all up in arms?

Neither of the two contenders can win your vote in November.

oralloy wrote:

engineer wrote:

Instead you wanted everyone to suck up to you, to have more say than everyone else.

Sort of like that African American woman who refused to move to the back of the bus despite being told the consequences, some decades back.

Wow, what a misrepresentation. She didn't insist on taking the very best seat on the bus, only on not being forced to the back. Your state is more like the person telling her to move back so he could have the best seat.

oralloy wrote:

engineer wrote:

It seems like the folks who scheduled the Michigan primary early were the democracy haters.

No, all they wanted is a system that treats Michigan fairly for once.

Michigan gets a lot of attention in the general election, a lot more than NC where I live. It seems you're getting greedy here. It's not enough that both parties will come calling from now to November, you want all the attention to start in January.

engineer wrote:

oralloy wrote:

engineer wrote:

Instead you wanted everyone to suck up to you, to have more say than everyone else.

Sort of like that African American woman who refused to move to the back of the bus despite being told the consequences, some decades back.

Wow, what a misrepresentation. She didn't insist on taking the very best seat on the bus, only on not being forced to the back. Your state is more like the person telling her to move back so he could have the best seat.

No, the people who are like the person telling her to move back are the ones who don't want Michigan's vote to count.

engineer wrote:

oralloy wrote:

engineer wrote:

It seems like the folks who scheduled the Michigan primary early were the democracy haters.

No, all they wanted is a system that treats Michigan fairly for once.

Michigan gets a lot of attention in the general election, a lot more than NC where I live. It seems you're getting greedy here. It's not enough that both parties will come calling from now to November, you want all the attention to start in January.

It is reasonable for us to want to participate in the nominations as well as the general elections.

oralloy wrote:

engineer wrote:

oralloy wrote:

engineer wrote:

Instead you wanted everyone to suck up to you, to have more say than everyone else.

Sort of like that African American woman who refused to move to the back of the bus despite being told the consequences, some decades back.

Wow, what a misrepresentation. She didn't insist on taking the very best seat on the bus, only on not being forced to the back. Your state is more like the person telling her to move back so he could have the best seat.

No, the people who are like the person telling her to move back are the ones who don't want Michigan's vote to count.

No one told Michigan to try to take the plum position on the calendar. You made that decision yourself. Moving to super Tuesday would have met your stated desire just fine.

oralloy wrote:

engineer wrote:

oralloy wrote:

engineer wrote:

It seems like the folks who scheduled the Michigan primary early were the democracy haters.

No, all they wanted is a system that treats Michigan fairly for once.

Michigan gets a lot of attention in the general election, a lot more than NC where I live. It seems you're getting greedy here. It's not enough that both parties will come calling from now to November, you want all the attention to start in January.

It is reasonable for us to want to participate in the nominations as well as the general elections.

Then vote on super Tuesday. That gives you fair representation. If you want to vote before that, you're seeking an unfair advantage.

You don't understand. The idea was to challenge the system that always puts New Hampshire and Iowa first.

Moving to Super Tuesday wouldn't have challenged that system.

oralloy wrote:

You don't understand. The idea was to challenge the system that always puts New Hampshire and Iowa first.

Moving to Super Tuesday wouldn't have challenged that system.

Senator Levin doesn't mind that someone is first, he just wants it to be Michigan.

From outside Michigan, I don't see why you feel that your state is especially deserving of that "honor".

It might be different if the rules had applied to everyone, but the DNC gave New Hampshire special permission to break the rules, and Michigan was only reacting to that injustice.

http://www.carllevin.com/news/2008/03/19/new-york-times-op-ed-why-michigan-is-fighting

The important thing for disenfranchised Michigan Democrats to do now is vote a straight Republican ticket until the Democrats stop disenfranchising us.

Larger states never have the right to go first; it provides too much of a disadvantage to those who aren't rich to begin with.

You have ignored this important fact, but it kills your case.

Cycloptichorn

Why can't we all vote on the same day?

Now that campaigning starts a year and a half before the election, they should be able to get their iews across to everyone June - March and then have the Super Tuesday country wide the first week in April or May.