UN Could Lead New 9/11 Investigation, Says Japanese MP

Let us examine your post. You assume anyone who wonders about 9/11 and the so called facts that the Bush machine tries to spin are kooks and already have their mind made up but your assumption that they are all kooks is a fact that you already believe without ever meeting most of the people who want the facts so they can make up their minds for themselves. Aren't you posing a counter conspiracy theory.

Zogby, "45% think "Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks". That's a lot of kooks in America never mind the rest of the world. The least likely theory on 911 is the government theory and the real kooks are those who buy it.

You're not identifying to whom your snotty and rather idiotic remark is addressed, Rabel. On the off chance that it is directed at me . . .

It doesn't appear that you have examined my posts. In fact, in the case of the author of this thread, i have learned over the years that he is a "kook," that he has an irrational hatred for the Shrub (of whom i am no admirer) and that he wishes to allege that the Shrub and his cronies are criminally complicit in the events of September 11th, 2001.

Had you actually examined my post, as you claimed, you would have read the first paragraph:



So, at the outset, i had in mind those who are kooks. I wasn't alleging that everyone who believes that there were a conspiracy in the matter of the September 11th attacks is a kook (although i'd be hard-pressed to think of any other plausible explanation), i was explicitly responding to those who believe that whom i have already determined to be kooks.



That's one of dumbest things you've said here, which is quite an accomplishment.

Oh, and my standard response to conspiracy allegations in the matter of September 11th, 2001: Yes, there was a conspiracy, and it was carried out by 15 Saudis, three Egyptians and one Lebanese. They're all dead now.

Setanta, I dont mind at all being called a kook by the likes of you. Over 70 million American voters want new 911 investigations. They're all kooks to you? Name calling seems to be your idea of evidence.

When you first brought up this "45%" story, which you have now changed to 70 million voters, you linked "911Truth.org," you didn't link Zogby. Similarly, at that page, the site does not link Zogby, it links it's own publication on the poll results and its meaning. I've been to Zogby to try to find the poll in question, to see precisely what the questions were, and what the results were. But i can't find that poll at Zogby's web site, and i'm not going to waste a lot of time doing so.

Now, at the page at "911Truth.org," they make a claim to the effect that:

The poll is the first scientific survey of Americans' belief in a 9/11 cover up or the need to investigate possible US government complicity . . .

--which very nicely underlines my point about the obsessional conspiracy theorists. And i have responded in detail to such a contention by providing a vivid example of how one could allege a cover-up based upon the behavior of people who are not criminally complicit.

Telling you that you're a blithering idiot into the bargain is just icing on the cake.

If you ever bother to provide a link to Zogby, with the poll questions and results, you might provide something to discuss. Even if it were true that 45% of "Americans" (as opposed to a projection based on poll responses) wanted a new investigation, if you put that on a ballot--it would lose.

Oh, and your boys at "911Truth.org" are playing fast an loose with the truth, even their own version of the truth. They write: Poll results indicate 42% believe there has indeed been a cover up (with 10% unsure), while failing to point out that in their own document, it says that 48% of respondents disagree with a statement that there has been a cover-up. Like i said, if that were a ballot initiative, it would lose.

Here is the pdf:

"Zogby Poll: Over 70 Million American Adults Support New 9/11 Investigation"

http://pdfserver.prweb.com/pdfdownload/388743/pr.pdf

http://www.911truth.org/images/ZogbyPoll2007.pdf

Once again, no link to Zogby's web site. Also, you all conveniently forget to mention that the poll was conducted almost two years ago. The hysteria may well have, is very likely to have, died down in that period of time.

Setanta, excuses and denial and name calling but no substance from you as usual. Very large number of "kooks" at home and abroad want new investigations. Why? Because the 911 Commission report and the government's theories are absurd. They got caught lying and ommitting evidence and eyewitnesses and even contradicting each other. FEMA said the government's theory on WTC 7 was "only a low probability of occurrence." There are plenty reasons to call for new investigations and that's why there are plenty people calling for new investigations. Those reasons have been discussed plenty on this forum. No need for a rehash. I posted the Mukasey story but because it's current and newsworthy and raises important questions. But that news has been ignored on the thread subverted not by evidence or discussion but meanspirited namecalling which is the norm for you on this forum.

The numbers questioning the government's theories have likely grown in 2 years. What I found most interesting about the Zogby poll was the large number of Americans willing to accept an international investigation.

What do you consider substance--you have failed entirely to respond to the points i made about why, if there were a cover-up, it could easily arise from causes which are not criminal complicity.

You continue to avoid the point that even your own crackpot source at "911Truth.org" fails to point out that although 42% agree with a claim to the effect "there has indeed been a cover up," 48% don't agree. It seems to me that substance in your estimation is agreement. If someone agrees with you, they have "substance" to offer. If they don't agree, then they have offered no substance.

Moron.

It should be a simple matter, then, for you to provide reliable evidence to that effect.

NIST has been caught lies in it's own report. Their science is deeply flawed according the basic laws of physics. The 911 Commission omitted euewitnesses who raised questions and told of explosions the government dont want people talking about. Any credible investigation will include eyewitness testimony. Any credible investigation will include both government scientists and scientists who scoff at the government's science. The government still has cannot explain the collapse of WTC 7 and admits that. A credible investigation will closely examine WTC 7. "Official reports from both NIST and FEMA state that they cannot explain why Building 7 fell, but maintain that it was related to a terrorist attack on the complex on 9/11. However, the FEMA report concludes that:

"The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this time. The best hypothesis has only a low probability of occurrence. Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue." link So FEMA agrees with the millions who say, "Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue." That's the sensible conclusion.

Well i can see that Bull Feces has wandered off into Fantasy Land . . . my work here is done . . .

Sentana
To you a kook seem to be anyone who disagrees with you. In history we have found that governments and politicians present the facts to make themselves seem better than they are. I think this is called spin. You yourself commented on the fact that thirteen Saudis were involved in the 9/11 attack yet you accept Bushes assertion that it was Iraq that caused 9/11. Whats wrong with a commission to check out the facts of 9/11. Not the Japanese one certainly because I agree at least one of them has already made up his mind. An impartial commission could put to rest most of the conspiracy theories. By the way insulting remarks and comments on ones intelligence docent make you many points and I find that you do this quite a bit. This may show a lack of intelligence in you.

It shows how intelligent you are to say that i pointed out that 13 Saudis were involved--i didn't, i pointed out that 15 Saudis were involved. It is a measure of your intelligence that you claim that i accept Bush's claim that the Iraqis were responsible for the September 11th attacks--i have never believed that, and have written nothing which remotely supports such a contention on your part. It doesn't make you look very intelligent to tell lies about what i do or don't believe.

I haven't said that there shouldn't be such an investigation. I'm just suggesting that if there were, the investigators should approach the subject with an open mind.

By the way, docent is a word which means a teacher or lecturer who is not a permanent staff member, or a guide in a church or a museum. The word you want is "doesn't," which is a contraction of "does not." I mention this because this is not the first time today that i've seen you write "docent" where the word you wanted is "doesn't." It doesn't make you look very intelligent to make such a basic error. It even leads me to question whether or not English is your mother tongue.

Setanta, let's see a link saying the numbers have gone down. Least likely scenario. As for your job being done all you've done is prove how lazy you are and how little you know about the government's 911 theories. "NIST's final report stated that of the steel available to it for examination, "only three columns had evidence that the steel reached temperatures above 250 degrees Celsius" (482 degrees Fahrenheit). The self-cleaning ovens in our home kitchens reach temperatures higher than this, and the ovens do not melt or deform." link That's far cry what they told us initially.

Funny that with all the warnings Bushie did nothing. He said he "felt no sense of urgency" about al qaeda and bin Laden before 911. But it aint just what he didn't do it's also what he did do. He called off investigations of al qaeda and bin Laden. He ignored reports making recommendations on airport and aircraft security. As for the Saudis he opened a Visa Express in Saudi Arabia making it easy to obtain entry to the US and several alleged hijackers got here that way. http://www.nationalreview.com/mowbray/mowbray061402.asp

I think that the issue of general incomptence on behalf of the intelligence community and the administration was never in doubt. WHere the conspiracy boys lose it is to somehow equate incompetence with active conspiracy.

As far as errors in science, the 911 truth gang is building its entire case upon lies , half truths, deceptions, and false interpretation of data.
I am really surprised at how gullible you can be when omething on the internet is accepted without any support.

Weve been over this so many times and guys like blueflame and zipper just accept the Steve Jones of the world "Dr Cold Fusion".