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Obama Embraces a Bigot and a Fanatic, the Rev. Wright

 
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 10:05 am
Parker Cross wrote:
Green Witch wrote:
Parker, I think if we scratch your thin surface a really nasty racist will pop out, or maybe just a troll.


Indeed, a terrible racist. But, wait! You don't know my ethnicity. Perhaps it is merely my own "legacy of defeat" that drives me to such insanities?

Green Witch, I would wager money that you are a white, liberal Democrat, most probably living in a large metropolis, having attended a liberal college and opposed to the death penalty for serial rapists and killers.



I don't think your color matters here.

As for own politics, I'm considered more of a moderate, I grew up in a Republican family, but they were Eisenhower Republicans, the Bush administration is just a shameful bunch of wastrels in their view. I do tend to vote Democrat, but I've voted for Republican mayors and governors on occasion. I am opposed to the death penalty because the gov't should not have power over life and death, murder is wrong no matter who is pulling the trigger or switch. Yes, I did attend a college that might be considered liberal - score one for the racist troll.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 10:09 am
engineer wrote:
Quote:

But Obama makes a key point: You can disagree with the comments and still love and respect the person. As a Southern of similar age to Obama, I have listened to relatives and in-laws make casually racist comments and cringed. Of course they back away when challenged, but I know exactly what Obama refers to. His point was that the races are still polarized, the behavior of Rev. Wright is not atypical in the US and that you can reject that behavior without rejecting the person.



Show me a person who say's he has no prejudices or has never made a bigoted remark, related to race, religion, background or whatever and I will show you a liar.

The difference between the reverend and the casual remark made by someone in a private conversation is that Wrights words are accepted and spread by his flock. He has the power of the pulpit. Obama should have had the good sense to disavow them and found another place to worship. No matter what Obama now claims since his forced condemnation of Wrights words, I must question whether he speaks from his heart or out of political expediency. This is one lifelong democrate who will not vote for Obama for president. I have two choices not to vote or vote republican.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 10:11 am
Too many liars out there, for my money...
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Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 10:19 am
Parker Cross wrote:

Green Witch, I would wager money that you are a white, liberal Democrat, most probably living in a large metropolis, having attended a liberal college and opposed to the death penalty for serial rapists and killers.


Oops, forgot to mention I live in conservative, rural area where I pay taxes as a farmer. (I hate that we can't edit)

Au1929 - Do you really think McCain, following the lead of Bush, is a better choice? I'd do a write in vote for Lincoln before voting for 100 more years in Iraq.
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 10:24 am
Poor Rev. Wright. He's castigated from the right and left. Never mind that his accusations are fair and backed up by historical evidence. Never mind that there will not be constructive change until America faces up to that history. Point by point Rev. Wright's accusations can be proven to be true. For that reason I think he'd be the ideal President if healing and change and a better world is the desire. Another for instance, "Abu Ghraib .... Shocking? What Happened There Is Commonplace at U.S. Prisons" http://hnn.us/articles/8842.html The problem imo is an America that like Sgt. Shultz dont wanna know nutting.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 10:26 am
Parker Cross wrote:
candidone1 wrote:
I just find it odd that the same crowd excoriating Obama for his reverend's comments weren't anywherre to be found condemning the white preachers, ministers, and priests when they spew their anti-gay, anti-American, anti-black, anti-immigrant, anti-everything-that-goes-against-the-predominantly-white-status-quo.

For the sake of balance because you are clearly a slave to the truth, and a slave to objectivity....could please direct me to your paralleled condemnation on this site of the white religious leaders and white media pundits who are guilty of precisely the same thing as Wright?


You make this too easy my friend. So I will use your very own words:

candidone1 wrote:
Fact: Obama is running for President, not Wright. Obama has consistently maintained that mudslinging is not the kind of politics America needs. He shouldn't ever have to qualify the statements made by a reverend from his church. It's irrelevant. But it is relevent because it's dirt...and like Clinton's BJ, it was irrelevant, but it was dirt. The right loves their dirt because their policies don't work but dirt does.


Wouldn't that apply to my (an atheist, by the way), defending a bunch of white bigoted preachers?

Here's your sign.

You can keep your rope.


You are very selective in what you read.
First, Obama has not "defended a bigoted black preacher".
Your analogy (in dark red) fails miserably.

Second, I was merely stating that whites are condemning Wright/Obama in a manner disproportionate to when white religious leaders spew the very same kind of vitriol.

What is happening vis a vis Wright/Obama is a unique phenomenon. A different standard of objection and a different standard of defense and a different standard of condemnation is applied to them.

Because they are black, a different set of standards are applied.
That was my point.

Keep your rope. You may need to lend it out to the next at Jena high school rally.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 10:26 am
GreenWitch wrote:
Au1929 - Do you really think McCain, following the lead of Bush, is a better choice? I'd do a write in vote for Lincoln before voting for 100 more years in Iraq.



I think that this was mentioned before, but I really don't think that the McCain meant that the US will be at WAR in Iraq for 100 years. But we might have bases in that country.

There are many places around the world where the US has a military presence, and there is no war. Check this out:


http://www.libsci.sc.edu/bob/class/clis734/webguides/milbase.htm
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:02 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
GreenWitch wrote:
Au1929 - Do you really think McCain, following the lead of Bush, is a better choice? I'd do a write in vote for Lincoln before voting for 100 more years in Iraq.



I think that this was mentioned before, but I really don't think that the McCain meant that the US will be at WAR in Iraq for 100 years. But we might have bases in that country.

There are many places around the world where the US has a military presence, and there is no war. Check this out:


http://www.libsci.sc.edu/bob/class/clis734/webguides/milbase.htm


I understand about the bases, and I'm sure we will continue to have some presence in Iraq no matter who is in the Oval Office. However, I just can not vote for anyone tainted by the Bush administration. I want a full clean out of the last eight years. I want the White House to undergo a fumigation. I would be personally willing to wipe off the finger prints of Bush and Cheney from every piece of furniture. I'm sorry McCain didn't win the Republican nomination in 2000, if he had been president I don't think America would be in the mess it is today. Now I feel McCain is an old, tired, but honorable man whose glory is long past.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:15 am
Gargamel wrote:
Is your middle name "Burning" perchance?

OK, that made me laugh.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:36 am
one thing that no matter what side of the political or philosophical fence you're on you can't deny... so far this Obama campaign has sure brought everyone together... we may disagree on these threads or in this country... sometimes strongly.... but we sure do know how to pick uniters not dividers...God Bless America...
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nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:46 am
And if that's not enough, look how well his organizational skills - Hope! - Change! - Unity! - Healing! have worked in the church he has supported and belonged to for 20 years.

Because, you know, no devisiveness going on there at all.
0 Replies
 
Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:53 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
one thing that no matter what side of the political or philosophical fence you're on you can't deny... so far this Obama campaign has sure brought everyone together... we may disagree on these threads or in this country... sometimes strongly.... but we sure do know how to pick uniters not dividers...God Bless America...


And if there's one thing we can all get behind, it's a machine candidate destined to lose to the Republican nominee.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:53 am
one has nothing to do with the other my friend....
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Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:55 am
joefromchicago wrote:
Gargamel wrote:
Is your middle name "Burning" perchance?

OK, that made me laugh.


I have always admired the brilliance that is Gargamel.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 12:11 pm
ho, I do think Obama's skills, compassion and understanding exemplify those of his church. "Chicago's Trinity UCC is 'great gift to wider church family'"


Written by J. Bennett Guess
March 14, 2008


In the wake of misleading attacks on its mission and ministry, Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ is being lauded by United Church of Christ leaders across the nation for the integrity of its worship, the breadth of its community involvement and the depth of its commitment to social justice.

"Trinity United Church of Christ is a great gift to our wider church family and to its own community in Chicago," says UCC General Minister and President John H. Thomas. "At a time when it is being subjected to caricature and attack in the media, it is critical that all of us express our gratitude and support to this remarkable congregation, to Jeremiah A. Wright for his leadership over 36 years, and to Pastor Otis Moss III, as he assumes leadership at Trinity."

Thomas says he has been saddened by news reports that "present such a caricature of a congregation that been such a great blessing."

"These attacks, many of them motivated by their own partisan agenda, cannot go unchallenged," Thomas emphasizes. "It's time for all of us to say 'No' to these attacks and to declare that we will not allow anyone to undermine or destroy the ministries of any of our congregations in order to serve their own narrow political or ideological ends."

Located in the heart of Chicago's impoverished Southside, Trinity UCC's vast array of ministries include career development and college placement, tutorial and computer services, health care and support groups, domestic violence programs, pastoral care and counseling, bereavement services, drug and alcohol recovery, prison ministry, financial counseling and credit union, housing and economic development, dozens of choral, instrumental and dance groups, and diverse programming for all ages, including youth and senior citizens.

Thomas, a member of Pilgrim Congregational UCC in Cleveland, has attended worship at Trinity UCC on a few occasions -- most recently on March 2 -- and says he is "profoundly impressed" with the 6,000-member congregation.

Among Trinity UCC's crowning achievements, Thomas says, is its work with young people.

"While the worship is always inspiring, the welcome extravagant, and the preaching biblically based and prophetically challenging, I have been especially moved by the way Trinity ministers to its young people, nurturing them to claim their Christian faith, to celebrate their African-American heritage, and to pursue higher education to prepare themselves for leadership in church and society," Thomas says.

'Exceedingly gracious'

The Rev. Steve Gray, the UCC's Indiana-Kentucky Conference Minister, describes Trinity UCC as a "jewel."

"It's everything a Christian community is supposed to be," says Gray, who has been working with Trinity UCC for the past three years to develop a new UCC congregation in Gary, Ind. "Trinity has given well over $100,000 in support of its partnership with us, and in 15 months of regular meetings with Jeremiah Wright, we always found him to be a man of gracious hospitality, humor, generosity, who paid attention to detail but also a man who does not call attention to himself."

Trinity UCC has been involved in planting more than 15 new congregations, according to the UCC's Evangelism Ministry in Cleveland.

Gray, a member of First Congregational UCC in Indianapolis, has worshiped several times at Trinity UCC and is most impressed by the overflowing sense of welcome it extends to visitors.

"When you're Euro-American, the people [at Trinity UCC] are so exceedingly gracious, warm and welcoming. They hug you and say, 'Welcome to our church!'"

Many, including Gray, point with appreciation to Trinity UCC's generous support of denominational and ecumenical ministries. From 2003 to 2007, Trinity UCC gave more than $3.7 million to Our Church's Wider Mission, the UCC's shared fund for connectional mission and ministry.

'Extraordinary outreach'

The Rev. Bennie Whiten, retired Massachusetts Conference Minister who prior served for 15 years as associate director of Chicago's Community Renewal Society, says, "Trinity was one church that we could always rely on to respond almost immediately. They have been very, very involved in the community in so many meaningful ways."

Noting the church's work in health care, early childhood education and economic development, Whiten says, "The scope of their concern and outreach is extraordinary. It's really just an outstanding congregation."

Whiten, a member of Pilgrim UCC in Oak Park, Ill., is especially taken with Trinity UCC's commitment to the need and importance of quality theological education. More than 60 members of Trinity UCC are currently enrolled in seminary and pursuing masters-level degrees. Moreover, the congregation pays for students' tuition costs.

"They firmly believe in the UCC's commitment to an educated, seminary-trained clergy," Whiten said, "and they have probably had more people feeling the call to ministry than any other church in the denomination."

The Rev. Susan Thistlethwaite, president and professor of theology at UCC-related Chicago Theological Seminary, says Trinity UCC is a model church in the way it supports its people in discerning and cultivating their gifts for ministry, both lay and ordained.

"Another thing I really appreciate about Trinity is that its ministries are always directed both inward, toward the congregation itself, and also outward in supporting other congregations ecumenically and supporting community organizations that are dedicated to lifting up the wider society," Thistlethwaite says. "We have had so many fine students come through Chicago Theological Seminary who were helped to discern their call to ministry through this church's dedication to serving the wider church."

'Jesus and justice'

The Rev. Kenneth L. Samuel, pastor of Victory UCC in Stone Mountain, Ga., says he is impressed that Trinity UCC "promotes spirituality and piety while also being emphatic about social justice."

While Trinity UCC is the denomination's largest congregation, Samuel's 5,300-member church is the UCC's second largest. Founded in 1987, it joined the UCC in 2004.

"Trinity was really one of the churches that inspired me to want to affiliate with the United Church of Christ," Samuel said. "My church was originally National Baptist and Southern Baptist, but it was the critical-thinking that [Trinity] brought to this work, the justice work, that helped me to want to become a part of the denomination. I have no regrets about that."

Samuel says that, during Wright's 36-year ministry at Trinity, Wright has not been afraid to tackle difficult topics, while staying equally committed to preaching "Jesus and justice."

"There have been two major sins in the Black church that many Black churches will not address - homophobia is one and sexism is another," Samuel says, "and Jeremiah Wright has been one of the articulate, courageous voices that has not been afraid to address these critical issues. If he can do that and still maintain his close connectivity to the Black community, and stay grounded in the Black ethos, that's what has inspired me."

'Speaks well for us'

Carol Brown, national president of United Black Christians and a member of Cleveland's Mt. Zion UCC for more than 50 years, describes Trinity UCC as "the flagship church of the United Church of Christ."

"I think it's very interesting that a minority group within a denomination can have the largest church, support the most ministries and give the largest number of OCWM [mission] dollars," Brown says. "That speaks well for us as an accepting, open and affirming denomination. Especially, as a justice-oriented church, [Trinity UCC] sets a standard for all the denomination that all are welcome."

Brown, who worships at Trinity UCC when in Chicago for meetings, says she is most taken by its exuberant spirit.

"It's certainly a very welcoming church, and it's certainly very reaffirming of the faith when people join in such large numbers when there's an altar call," Brown says. "It's something that you don't see in the average church. God is certainly at work there, and it's exciting when you see that many people stand up to witness to their faith and step forward."
0 Replies
 
Parker Cross
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:22 pm
Green Witch wrote:

I don't think your color matters here.

As for own politics, I'm considered more of a moderate, I grew up in a Republican family, but they were Eisenhower Republicans, the Bush administration is just a shameful bunch of wastrels in their view. I do tend to vote Democrat, but I've voted for Republican mayors and governors on occasion. I am opposed to the death penalty because the gov't should not have power over life and death, murder is wrong no matter who is pulling the trigger or switch. Yes, I did attend a college that might be considered liberal - score one for the racist troll.


Really? Color doesn't matter? If it were a white man in front of a congregation and a television camera spewing the racist BS Obama's pastor did the entire country would be up in arms about it. Moreover, if you would be honest, down in your liberal heart you know you would blast any conservative mainstream politician that refused to disown said preacher completely. Don't tell me color doesn't matter.

Why would it be so easy for this "racist troll" (personal attacks being a refuge for the inarticulate), to accurately describe you? Perhaps you are a cliche. The white liberal who fits the exact mold of those that are incessantly against their own country and culture. While I am glad your parents are Eisenhower Republicans (and I agree with them in regards to fiscal policy), I'm not sure how that in any way establishes any bona fides?

You are so incensed that someone with a decent-sized vocabulary actually disagrees with your ilk and speaks out against your socialist messiah, that the only explanation must be that he is a racist troll. Perhaps you are only a liberal straw man?
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:24 pm
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/20/124426/842/246/480797
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:25 pm
Parker Cross wrote:
Green Witch wrote:

I don't think your color matters here.

As for own politics, I'm considered more of a moderate, I grew up in a Republican family, but they were Eisenhower Republicans, the Bush administration is just a shameful bunch of wastrels in their view. I do tend to vote Democrat, but I've voted for Republican mayors and governors on occasion. I am opposed to the death penalty because the gov't should not have power over life and death, murder is wrong no matter who is pulling the trigger or switch. Yes, I did attend a college that might be considered liberal - score one for the racist troll.


Really? Color doesn't matter? If it were a white man in front of a congregation and a television camera spewing the racist BS Obama's pastor did the entire country would be up in arms about it. Moreover, if you would be honest, down in your liberal heart you know you would blast any conservative mainstream politician that refused to disown said preacher completely. Don't tell me color doesn't matter.

Why would it be so easy for this "racist troll" (personal attacks being a refuge for the inarticulate), to accurately describe you? Perhaps you are a cliche. The white liberal who fits the exact mold of those that are incessantly against their own country and culture. While I am glad your parents are Eisenhower Republicans (and I agree with them in regards to fiscal policy), I'm not sure how that in any way establishes any bona fides?

You are so incensed that someone with a decent-sized vocabulary actually disagrees with your ilk and speaks out against your socialist messiah, that the only explanation must be that he is a racist troll. Perhaps you are only a liberal straw man?


Bull. White congregations preach hate towards Muslims and Homosexuals on a daily basis. Falwell and Robertson and Hagee are renowned for this, and where's the media outrage? Nowhere.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Parker Cross
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:31 pm
kickycan wrote:
Parker Cross wrote:
kickycan wrote:
Fact: Pastor Wright would probably not make a good president.

Fact: Obama is not Pastor Wright.


Very true Kickycan. However, going back to my earlier post. His association with pastor Wright is one of choice. He wants us to choose the best person (presumably him) for President. He constantly refers to the "choices" of the opposing candidates. Doesn't his poor choice of pastor, mentor, guidance counselor, advisor, and intimate reflect anything on Obama's character to you?


Yes, it does to some degree. But not even remotely as much as the things he himself has said, done and written. And in comparison to the other candidates, he's still the best choice in my opinion. But of course, I'm not basing my opinion solely on the caricature that has been created of Pastor Wright as a rabid, America-hating lunatic, as you seem to be.


Rev. Wright is not a lunatic. I wish he were. What he is is far worse that the run-of-mill lunatic. A lunatic is an obvious red flag for everyone. No one applauds a lunatic, no one leaps up to pound him on the back when he spews verbal diarrhea. No, a lunatic is discredited, he is confined or hospitalized. The Rev. Wright is a far worse villain. He is an insidious sickness that stands at the forefront of a large, popular, and powerful church. He is a standard bearer for many African-Americans in his congregation and beyond. He is also a CLOSE confidant of a potential President of the United States.

I will gladly subject myself to a lunatic instead of this man. At least then nothing he said would matter to anyone. Instead we have thousands, possibly millions, of the feeble minded agreeing with him and reveling in his anti-America, blame-whites-for-everything, garbage. He is entrenching a generation of young Americans in blame-thinking. "It isn't my fault I am a criminal or a delinquent. It is the fault of white America."

Give me the lunatic.
0 Replies
 
Parker Cross
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:33 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Bull. White congregations preach hate towards Muslims and Homosexuals on a daily basis. Falwell and Robertson and Hagee are renowned for this, and where's the media outrage? Nowhere.

Cycloptichorn


Yes, yes. And have you noticed that Falwell and Robertson (jointly in fact, and from the grave), are John McCain's personal pastor. They officiated at his wedding, baptized his children, preached to him weekly, gave him personal and political advise. He never called them "agents of intolerance", and has always associated himself with them.

Your parallels run weak. Try harder.
0 Replies
 
 

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